Dr Pedram Shojai
Episode Description:
In this insightful episode of the Urban Monk Podcast, Dr. Pedram Shojai explores the critical concept of neuroception—our nervous system’s automatic detection of safety and threat—and how it fundamentally impacts our health, happiness, and ability to thrive.
Dr. Shojai breaks down the science behind Dr. Stephen Porges’ polyvagal theory, explaining how our subconscious continuously scans for environmental cues of safety or danger, triggering different responses in our autonomic nervous system. When we don’t feel safe, our body can’t properly heal, digest, or function optimally—regardless of how many supplements, green smoothies, or wellness practices we incorporate.
Learn how to recognize safety signals in your environment, relationships, and within yourself, while discovering practical techniques to counteract stress responses: peripheral vision exercises, diaphragmatic breathing, calf stretching, and tongue positioning. Dr. Shojai also offers valuable advice on creating sanctuary spaces, minimizing exposure to negative news cycles, and making intentional choices about your environment to support your nervous system.
Whether you’re dealing with chronic stress, healing from trauma, or simply navigating our increasingly chaotic world, this episode provides essential insights for recalibrating your neuroception and creating the conditions for genuine wellbeing. As Dr. Shojai emphasizes, it’s time to “stop cutting yourself” with harmful inputs and start actively cultivating the safety signals your body and mind need to flourish.
If you want to check out the SANCTUARY course, you can see it HERE.
Listen to the episode on Spotify here or on your favorite podcast platform and check out the Urban Monk Academy here.
Podcast transcript:
Feeling Safe in an Unsafe World
[00:00:00] Welcome back to the Urban Mon Podcast, Dr. Pedram Shojai. Happy to be doing this, happy to be talking about things that matter. Um, I have pumped the brakes a little bit on doing lots and lots of interviews because there’s a number of topics that have surveyed my audience about that just keep coming up.
And I just want to address, you know, if I’m gonna do this, I’m doing it to serve so. There’s a very big topic around safety and the idea of neuroception that I want to introduce in today’s podcast. What is Neuroception? We’ll talk about it in the podcast, but it really has to do with feeling safe so that you can heal, feeling safe, so that you can be happy and feeling safe so that you can thrive.
Um, inside this thing called life. Um, we take it for granted that our safety signals. Or doing what they’re doing. But when the undercurrent of our safety signaling is saying the world isn’t safe, there are many things that [00:01:00] crumble around us biologically, neurologically, physiologically, that make it very, very difficult to thrive.
And you could throw supplements and green smoothies and probiotics and weird gadgets at yourself all day, every day. Oh wait, you’re already doing that. But if you don’t have the safety signaling managed, it’s all a waste because the body cannot receive. So if this is you, and chances are it is, give this episode a listen and share this with the people in your life that need to hear this message.
Enjoy.
Dr Pedram Shojai: Today I wanna talk about this concept of neuroception. I’ve been kind of dancing around it and I want to bring it to light and we can discuss it in a little bit.
I. Um, but it is at the intersection of neuroscience, psychology, um, polyvagal theory, um, and all sorts of kind of really cool new [00:02:00] areas in thinking that I think would be appropriate to bring forth, , for you all here. , and the key aspects include some of these areas that we talk about all the time, right.
The core definition is the neural detection of safety and threat. We talk a lot about this in the Deep sleep solution, but , it’s a term coined by Dr. Steven Porges, uh, polyvagal Theory Framework. , it’s a neural process through which our nervous system continuously and automatically evaluates risk in our environment without conscious awareness.
It’s essentially how our nervous system determines situations, uh, or people that are safe, dangerous, life-threatening, right? Animal instinct stuff, always running under the radar. Why is that important? We’re gonna get into it, but this polyvagal theory and neuroception, I think becomes a really important, integral part of why we do the things that [00:03:00] we do, lengthening our fuse, um, but also the things that we do in terms of bringing awareness.
To the campfire so that we are aware of doing the things that we do. Okay. So some of the key aspects, and then we’ll dance around it, are subconscious processing . You have to understand that it’s operating below conscious awareness. So it is constantly, it’s like a virus checker. It is constantly scanning for cues of safety or danger and.
I would argue that that isn’t just creepy guy around the corner, but that could also be what was inside that cheese burrito. And that is also dangerous to your body if you have a sensitivity to the gluten, the beans, the dairy, the whatever, right? So how it works is it activates different parts of our autonomic nervous system, and that’s all based on the perceived safety levels, right?[00:04:00]
So, uh, ventral, vagal. Safety, social engagement system. Hey, everything’s cool. I love your sweater. Yay. Uh, the sympathetic system is the mobilization system, which is, this is danger. Let’s move away. Let’s cross the street. Let’s slowly, you know, pull our purse in, right? Like the things that you would do in a situation that feels dangerous, but not life threatening.
Because that is the dorsal vagal and that’s the immobilization system, ? And we’re gonna talk about that because then we can go freeze, right? There’s fight, flight or freeze. Freeze is a bad place to go if the lion’s trying to eat you, um, that guy gets eaten. So I want to, uh, first of all, neuroception versus perception is, unlike conscious perception, neuroception happens automatically.
And you can’t be directly controlled through your willpower, ? It’s like, oh, you know, you could override and be like, oh, that guy’s fine. It’s not dangerous, right? But the [00:05:00] feeling is still there. So now you are rationalizing the way you feel, but you feel unsafe in that situation. I. Safety signals are environmental cues that our nervous system interprets. It’s either safe or unsafe, allowing us to kind of relax our vigilance.
So that we can restore and connect and or not, right? Like get me the hell outta here. So some of the safety signals that we like, and this is why I did a whole course for you all called sanctuary, right? Is environmental familiar settings, adequate lighting, comfortable temperature, prediction patterns, all these things where it’s like, ah, I’m home.
Why does that happen? ’cause you know you’re safe at home. And if you have some abusive spouse that’s throwing stuff at you, maybe that’s not the case, right? Domestic violence is a problem, but what you want is a safe environment to feel at home in a [00:06:00] social setting. There’s smiling, friendly facial expressions, pro-social voice tones.
Open body language, not shut down body language, ? Familiar people, less strangers, right? Those are all things that trigger safety signaling, ah, I’m in a safe place with safe people, internal, you have comfortable physical sensations. I feel, okay, my breathing is normal. I’m not in pain versus my heart rate’s gone up.
Uh, my breathing is stifled, right? That’s the opposite of safety. The feeling of safety, isn’t it? And then temporal, which is, you know, predictable routines, adequate time for transition, um, what I call time compression, right? Knowing what comes next, not being in a completely chaotic environment where you don’t know what’s coming at you.
Those are all things that signal for safety. Now, the problem is the absence of safety signals, or the presence of danger signals. That’s what can trigger these [00:07:00] defensive states in the nervous system affecting everything from digestion, cognitive function, social behavior, running to the toilet, you name it, right?
There are a lot of things that happen when you don’t feel safe, the least of which is you’re not digesting your burrito well. So here are the physical applications. Uh, so understanding neuroception, um, has a lot of profound implications. For trauma recovery, you wanna create environments that are rich in safety cues, right?
The whole sanctuary course, go do it if you haven’t done it right. Helps trauma survivors rebuild regulation capacity, create a safe space, do so, be around safe people. There are people in my life that have been dismissed that are no longer welcome. Because they’re not the types of people that made me feel good, safe, comfortable, and
yeah. So what if we went to high school [00:08:00] together? I’m kind of done. Right. And so who are the people in your life that trigger your neuroception? Obviously, as a parent, I think of this a lot. My children’s nervous system, co-regulating with caregivers, giving them safety signals, making ’em feel safe, you know, come under the wing.
Um. That is a, an important way to raise children if you weren’t raised that way. Now you’re dealing with the trauma that comes from that in the wake of that. , but this generationally paying forward is a big deal. Right. Um, there’s a 10 part series on conscious parenting that I did, and that’s kind of all they talked about, right?
, and then setting up cues, like therapeutic cues. So you intentionally provide safety cues when you’re with someone to make ’em feel safe. I. You could lower your voice, you could shift your posture. You can set up the environment to be welcoming, to make a place feel safe. Now, if you need to do that for yourself, get to work after this call, right?
But the [00:09:00] signaling that comes to your brain allows for the hurt animal to lick its wounds and not keep looking for the next, you know, tiger. That’s pouncing. . We do this a lot in education, create classroom environments, um, that have consistent safety signals that optimize learning. You don’t want chaos everywhere.
You want them to focus on what you’re talking about. So it’s like, what was that? What was that? Um, and there’s always something, right? my son, and this is not a safety signal, but it is like we all have animal brains. So they had this squirrel that played outside their classroom window and you know, you got a bunch of 10 year olds trying to look at a chalkboard.
Then there’s a squirrel, you’re like, Ooh, squirrel, you can’t help it. Right? And that’s not even a safety signal. That’s just like, you know, hunter gatherer lion food. But it was an incredible trigger for them to just be like, man, we gotta trap this squirrel and get it outta here. Um, because these kids just could not focus with a dumb squirrel in the window.
Now imagine if that was a lion. [00:10:00] You’re not focused on anything if that’s a lion, right? We talked about this a few weeks ago. As you look at the studies with the gazelle’s on the African Savannah. When they’re in rest and digest, sitting here chomping my grass, my eyes are focused on the periphery. My buddy Bob is behind me looking that way.
So all I gotta do is just kind of scan this way and chew and digest and yummy. Right? And then all of a sudden you’re like, Ooh. Um, what’s that? Uh, it’s coming closer. It’s coming closer. It’s coming closer. Oh shit. That’s a lion. Does he see me? Does he see me? Oh shit. Vagal. Tone goes up, I gotta get outta here.
Very different quality of time, isn’t it? Periphery, hyper-focused, right? TikTok, hyper-focused. I’m looking at the stupid feed all day. So that’s why I’m adamant with you all to not stare at your devices all the time. ’cause the eyes focusing inward also triggers disease [00:11:00] because that’s how we were wired.
And, , in terms of health outcomes, I mean, it’s kind of obvious, but it must not go unstated, chronic defensive states triggered by lack of safety and the signaling of safety contribute to inflammation, neurodegeneration, and health issues downstream that are absolutely deplorable, right? Like it is not okay.
To feel that way, it is not okay to go down that road. So what I want to spend some time talking about here is the things that would counteract such stuff. Okay? What do we know from our work that pulls us out of sympathetic fight flight? Freeze stress into [00:12:00] parasympathetic rest, digest safety. We just talked about one of them, right?
Peripheral vision. So if you’re gonna see me next week, two weeks from now in New Newport Beach, we watch our hands as we do our stuff, ? Lower diaphragmatic breathing and pulling the lungs down with the diaphragm. Triggers parasympathetic activation helps code against those safety signals lengthening our gastroc muscle.
When we get tense as an animal, our calves tend to tighten up, so just stretching our calves has a powerful impact on recoding against this stressful neuroception. Just animal stuff, right? Like eh, imprint in the body to stretch your calves. Tongue curled, touching the roof of the mouth. Known switch for parasympathetic activation coming off of neuroception.
[00:13:00] Stress touch tongue to the roof of the mouth, breathing in, nose out, nose into the lower abdomen. So these are all ways to help water the right fields and come back to a neuro perceptive place. Ease. But I would argue that it’s very difficult if the kid next door is lighting firecrackers and you were, you know, in the randan genocide.
I would argue that having a sexual predator next door. And you wondering if your doors are locked 27 times before you go to bed, if you have a history of sexual abuse is going to help. So there are environmental things that could be adjusted to allow for more safety. And I think this is where a lot of us go, well, you know, I’m just gonna toughen up and get over it.
Um, [00:14:00] it’s just, it’s just the amount of straws that break your back. So how can you stack safety signals on one side of the ledger to tilt the scales towards saying, it’s okay, baby. It’s okay. Versus letting the scales get tipped and say The world is dangerous and the Chinese are marching on us, and Putin’s coming and fill in the blanks, right?
Like the world already is giving you a lot of unsafe signals. Then if you get caught in the political debates, then you know the other half of the country obviously is wrong and evil, right? And so you get into all of this good, evil yuck of polarity, and that’s without taking a foot, a footstep out the door.
So my argument to start with is, stop watching the goddamn news. Be careful how you get your news feeds because [00:15:00] those are triggering your safety signals in a way that is very hard to get over. You’re like, it’s not safe. It’s not safe. Like what did they do? Did they talk? Did they make peace? Are they coming right now?
Listen, if the marauders are out the door, grab a gun and defend your family. But what I’m saying, there’s just too much neuroception noise that makes you feel unsafe sitting in your living room right now, and most of you. Your gut linings can’t take it. Your secretory IGA can’t take it. Your neuroinflammation can’t take it because you’re past the age of 30 and you’ve gotten beat up by eating honey nut Cheerios.
’cause somebody said that was part of the food pyramid, right? Like we are where we are now. How does Humpty Dumpty come back together again? I stop cutting myself. Let’s start there. I stop eating foods that are poisonous. I stop watching the stupid news. I start listening to birds chirping, and I stop doing the things that make me [00:16:00] feel unsafe.
Now, the flip side of that is, I was just skiing this last weekend and I happened to be the dad that can ski. And so the boys who are all ski racers and bad asses now are like, dad, take us here. Dad, take us there. And I’m like, Ugh. So you should see some of the shit I did this weekend we’re like, I, I was like, this is called the Dangerous Cliff tour of 2025.
Like we’re just going on these like really jagged edges and then dropping off cliffs into places that my 49-year-old spine didn’t appreciate. And my son’s like, dad, dad, can you go first? And I’m like, wow. And I just ski it down because I’m a good skier. And I can tell you on the flip side of that.
The little thing I was fretting about that happened in the call center for work came down in [00:17:00] volume a little bit. So if you have the neuro adaptive capacity to be like, oh, this is stress, then it makes the other small stuff fall back into context. Oh, I’m, I’m flying off a cliff right now. That’s real stress.
Then what Betty said becomes a lot less stressful within the context of the life or death matrix, doesn’t it? Now I have the neuro adaptive capacity to jump off a cliff or two because
I feed the freaking meter every morning, which is what I invite you all to do, right? But if you don’t have the neuro adaptive capacity. To go rock climbing or do something crazy to kind of recalibrate your stress bucket, you gotta start stacking things on that side of the ledger. And it might take a month, it might take a year [00:18:00] until you feel better.
Okay. If you haven’t done the sanctuary course, I highly recommend it and secondly. Everything. Like I’m looking right now and I’ll, I’ll tell you guys what’s going on in the show, dry household in a minute, but my desk got messy again ’cause I had people taking everything outta that closet and out of that bookshelf and putting it in boxes ’cause we’re moving.
And it happened very quickly because the roof leaked and there was mold and I was gonna buy this house. I’m like, I’m not buying this house. But something very interesting happened here. As I became untethered, I took a moment and sat with it and was like,
how do I like it here? How do I feel here? How are the people here? What is this year look like with how my wife and my children have done? [00:19:00] And is this where we wanna spend the next decade? It brought, uh, about a very tumultuous two weeks of conversations and negotiations with my spouse, and we’re moving to Austin, Texas next week because I would prefer to not be in Southern California.
The people at the park don’t say hello. They look down when you smile, and for 10 months I’m just like, Hey. People are just so self-absorbed. I’m like, I don’t want my children to model that behavior. ’cause people are not happy in expressing happiness. I’m a big boy. I don’t care if that guy smiles back, but I don’t want my daughter to grow in a reality where people are grumpy and disengaged from other humans.
And so I’m going to reshape the environment to put them around. Friendly fam, family friendly people. So that they can grow their nervous systems and model [00:20:00] ’em in a way that I think is healthier for them. But the point I’m making is before all that, my desk didn’t have all the shit on it because
that makes me a little less safe when I have a bunch of clutter around me. It’s super subtle. It’s like there’s no one holding a gun to my head, but every time I look up I’m like, all shit. And that little cue of disease with having clutter around me can add up. And if I left my desk like this for several weeks, I’d be like, well, I’m not a brain fog.
Right? Clear your space. Clear your space.
I hope that was helpful for you. Uh, this is a conversation that’s ongoing inside the Urban Milk Academy teaching these folks how to. Lengthen their fuse and find that safety signaling [00:21:00] through daily acts of self-love practices. If you will, go to the urban monk.com, check out the academy if it’s for you.
Great. Doing practices to fill the tank. It’s important. Uh, the sanctuary course is also in there. Go find it. , it’s where I teach you how to make your home safe. Uh, from visual clutter to EMFs, to things that maybe are poison that are triggering your neuroception all around you that you should probably be aware of.
This is a lot of the conversation that’s happening around the Urban Monk Academy is teaching folks how to lengthen their fuse and how to be healthier versions of themselves so that they can thrive inside of their lives, inside of their family life. Career, all of it, right? It takes a lot. The world is a challenging place.
We’re in challenging times, but either you roll over and you die or you get pills thrown at you, or it’s time to step in and step up, turn the lights back on. Uh, [00:22:00] manage these things in a way where you get out on top of it so that you can be the person your family deserves. I’ll see you in the next podcast.
Thank you.
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