Kevin Ellis
Episode Description:
At 30 years old, former Marine Kevin Ellis received shocking news: he had osteoporosis, a condition most associate with elderly women. Facing a medical system offering only medication and the grim prediction of inevitable fractures, Kevin refused to accept this fate.
In this eye-opening conversation, Kevin reveals how he transformed his diagnosis by uncovering the true causes of bone loss and building a protocol that not only reversed his own osteoporosis but has now helped thousands reclaim their skeletal health.
Discover why the standard medical approach to bone health is dangerously incomplete, how your gut health directly impacts your bone strength, and why the exercises you’re doing might be completely ineffective for building bone density. Kevin shares the specific nutrients, movements, and testing protocols that can dramatically change your bone health trajectory—regardless of your age or current diagnosis.
Whether you’re in your 30s or your 70s, this episode provides actionable strategies to build a stronger skeletal foundation that will carry you through decades of vibrant, active living. Don’t miss this powerful conversation that challenges everything you thought you knew about building unbreakable bones.
Check out Kevin’s Bone Health Masterclass here.
Keywords: osteoporosis, bone health, nutrition for bones, exercise for osteoporosis, bone density, calcium myths, functional medicine, DEXA scan
Listen to the episode on Spotify here or on your favorite podcast platform and check out the Urban Monk Academy here.
Podcast transcript:
Bones of Steel: How a Marine Reversed Osteoporosis and Rewrote His Future Summit Bob Rountree with Promo
Kevin Ellis podcast
[00:00:00] Like for you to meet Kevin Ellis. Kevin was a Marine. Kevin was a young man. Kevin’s bone density was down. And so what do you, what are you told when your bone density is down? Here’s Fosamax. Here’s your drugs? Take these come back when I tell you, and he was not taking that for an answer. He dug into the literature.
He started to really figure out why. One’s bone density would go down. Fixed it for himself , love that kind of story and has helped a lot of people figure it out for themselves. Enjoy.
Track 1: Kevin, welcome it’s good to see you.
kevin-ellis_1_01-26-2024_162721: It’s great to be here. Looking forward to it.
Track 1: Yeah, man. You’ve helped a lot of my, , students, my patients. , it’s, you know, the, the word is scary when the doctor says, oh man, you got osteoporosis. People freak out about it. They freak out about their T scores and look. You have a solution. You have been helping people with this, and it has nothing to do with the [00:01:00] meds.
It has nothing to do with the, the stuff that they’re being told, and most people I’ve talked to haven’t heard of what y’all are doing in, in a way that that can meaningfully help their lives. So I was really happy to share you with my audience. So welcome.
kevin-ellis_1_01-26-2024_162721: Well, I appreciate that. Yeah, I mean, uh, I would say too bones, bones are almost like a forgotten organ Sometimes. We do all this other stuff to improve our health, but we don’t really think of our bones as something that we need to take care of until later in life. Most people are thinking about their mother, their grandmother, they heard that they had fractures and that it significantly impacted their quality of life later on, or maybe that they were hunched over or in a wheelchair or something like that.
And that’s not the way life should be lived. As we get into our later years, they should be the best years that we are we’re having and experiencing and going on all those bucket list adventures that we wanted to, but. You can’t get there if you don’t preserve and [00:02:00] strengthen the structure that’s gonna carry you to, to an active future.
So that’s why I love what we do,
Track 1: so you’re young, healthy looking, dude. How’d you get into this mess?
kevin-ellis_1_01-26-2024_162721: Well, like most people in the, the health space, it started with my own personal health journey and. I would take my health journey back to when my father passed away from cancer when I was two months old. And, you know, I was just a baby at the time, didn’t know him. Uh, he, my mother was five months pregnant with, with me.
He was told he had cancer and two months after I was born, he passed away. So my entire life I had this fear. This underlying fear that 35 was my latest expiration date. That was when he died. He was 35 years old. He was so young and all time could do was slow up or speed down the descent into the hourglass.
That’s, that’s exactly how I felt. And as I was growing up, I, he was a Marine, so I, I knew I was gonna be a Marine and follow in his footsteps to make him proud. And I went in the [00:03:00] Marine Corps, but when I got out, I started having all these different health issues. I had high stress. I had poor sleep, I had chronic digestive issues, uh, had low energy and fatigue.
Some days I could barely even get out of bed some days, and I was then diagnosed with celiac disease. So celiac disease, for those who aren’t familiar, what, which you may be, but if you aren’t, it’s an autoimmune condition where when you ingest gluten. It damages the vii, these tiny little nutrient absorption centers in your small intestine, and it, it blunts them to where they can’t do their job, they can’t absorb these nutrients.
So for me, my body was taking in these nutrients. I couldn’t absorb them specifically. Calcium, the primary mineral constituent of your bones, your body still needs these nutrients to execute its daily functions. I wasn’t getting them. So what was my body doing? It was going to the bones, the largest reserve of minerals that we have, and it was pulling from there.
And that led to bone loss and [00:04:00] osteoporosis, you know, right around my 30 years old. So for me, I was this tough marine not thinking or anything’s wrong with my bones, even though I had other health issues. And all the other doctors that I had gone to, none of them were like, Hey. We should check out your bones or has anybody done a bone density scan on you?
Until a, a physician’s assistant asked me that and I’m thinking, nothing, nothing’s gonna be wrong with mine. I’m good. And the results came back and they sent me a letter in the mail and said, you have osteoporosis. Go on a gluten-free diet. That was the extent of the, the treatment plan. And I went and I got a second opinion and then it was.
Medication and fracture were my future. And that was when I was like, I need to figure this out so I don’t follow in the footsteps of my father and, you know, put my kids in, in that position. So I had a very strong impetus to make progress and improvement, and I, I did, and I went on to decide I want to take the same energy and effort and enthusiasm and leadership that I had in [00:05:00] the Marine Corps and apply it to the health space and.
Now we’ve helped hundreds of thousands of people, you know, through Bone Coach and our programs.
Track 1: So you found through, obviously for you, you had a specific condition that was compromising your absorption. Um, that’s not everybody I. So what did you dig up as you started looking at why people were getting osteoporosis?
kevin-ellis_1_01-26-2024_162721: Well, there are a variety of reasons why this can happen Now, primary osteoporosis, and by the way, osteoporosis that is. That’s porous bone. That’s the condition that’s characterized by either not enough bone formation, excessive bone loss, or it’s a combination of the two of those things. And an osteoporosis.
Both your bone density and your bone quality are reduced and that puts you at greater risk of fracture. Is fracture guaranteed? Absolutely not. But are you at greater risk if you’re losing [00:06:00] bone? Of course you are. The, there’s primary osteoporosis that typically occurs as a result of the decrease in estrogen.
In postmenopausal women, estrogen has a protective effect on bone. As those levels decrease as they do during menopause, that increases the activity level of cells that are breaking down bone. Then there are other causes of osteoporosis and bone loss. Those are called se, that’s called secondary osteoporosis, and this is where it occurs as a result of behaviors, disorders, diseases, conditions like celiac disease and malabsorption for may or or other factors that can lead to bone loss.
An important note to make here is just ’cause you’re a postmenopausal woman does not mean hormones are the sole cause of your bone loss. There could be other causes and contributing factors, and also we have to understand that you also may not have built up enough bone in your younger years. [00:07:00] 90% of your bone mass is put on by the time you turn age 18.
The remaining 10% fills in by the time you turn 30. So if when you were younger, you had poor diet nutrition, you were drinking a bunch of sugary soft drinks and eating a bunch of candy and not getting vitamin D, vitamin K two, calcium, magnesium. If you let a sedentary lifestyle, if you weren’t really active, you weren’t playing sports, you weren’t moving your body and your bones in these short, sharp, dynamic movements stimulating new bone growth.
Gymnastics is fantastic, by the way, for kids and grandkids. That’s one of the best things you could do for, for bone density as a kid. Uh, but if you had an eating disorder when you were younger, if you smoked or drank excessively, if you took certain medications like glucocorticoids, prednisone, all of those things could have prevented you from achieving peak bone mass in what I call a full bucket.
So there are just because you get a bone density scan and it says you have osteoporosis. [00:08:00] Does not mean you have the full picture of what is causing or has caused that bone loss. I.
Track 1: When you mention malabsorption, you figure a g. I mean, if you talk to the functional medicine guys, everyone’s got leaky gut, so everyone has a compromised intestinal lining. Everyone has endotoxemia. Everyone’s got a little bit of that happening inside of our maladapted guts to, you know. All the stuff that’s coming at us.
You look at the literature, uh, environmental toxins also lead to malabsorption. So it, in your experience, having seen hundreds of thousands of people at this point, how much of it goes back to the gut? How much of it goes back to just poor nutrient intake? I’m just trying to get a sense of like relative percentages.
kevin-ellis_1_01-26-2024_162721: Yeah. Well, I mean, a big portion of the, the people that come to see us, they have digestive issues too. So oftentimes they do think they’re eating healthy, but what we oftentimes find is [00:09:00] that they’re falling short in terms of some, uh, in, in some pretty key nutrients. So protein is one of them. Your bones are 50% protein by volume.
You need amino acids. That’s one of the areas people typically fall, shorten. Calcium, magnesium, vitamin D three, vitamin K two. Those are some other important ones. Uh, and I’ll go more into the nutrients in just a minute, but vitamin C is another really important nutrient that a lot of people don’t get enough of.
But in terms of gut health, it’s not just a matter of absorption. When it comes to your bones, so like I talked about, I gave the example of celiac disease where you’re taking in gluten, it’s damaging the vii. The VII can’t absorb the nutrients your body needs, the nutrients, it goes to the bones to get them.
Then you have bone loss. So absorption is one key. The other issue with digestive issues is that, uh, inside your bones, your bones are not just these static tissues that hold you upright and carry you through life. They do that and they do a good job of [00:10:00] it, but they are living tissue. So inside your bones you have bone marrow.
95% of the blood cells in your body are produced in the bone marrow. So if you’re, if we’re talking about preventing bleeding and clotting, platelets are gonna help with that. If you were talking about carrying oxygen to the body’s tissues, carrying carbon dioxide away from the tissues back to the lungs, we, blood cells are gonna help with that.
But if we’re talking about fighting infections, healing wounds, anything related to the immune system. That’s where white blood cells come in. The cells that break down bone osteoclast, they’re a form of white blood cell. So anything that’s stimulating the immune system is speaking in the same language as the cells that break down bone.
Where is 70% of your immune system reside in your gut? Right. So it’s not just a matter of are we absorbing the nutrients, it’s are those digestive issues that leaky gut, all those toxins. Are they [00:11:00] creating or stimulating the immune system and speaking in the same language as the cells that break down bone leading to more bone loss?
Track 1: That’s fascinating. And so an epidemic in one place leads to a silent epidemic somewhere else.
kevin-ellis_1_01-26-2024_162721: Yeah. And then, and it’s also, we know this, it’s not just the bones that are affected, it’s just the bones are not really thought about in that process, we think about. Uh, issues with the immune system all the time and inflammation and leading to all these other health issues, but your bones are absolutely affected in this process too.
Track 1: You think of the conditions that these kids are grown up in now, right? Um, more sedentary sugar cereals, very low protein intake. Some of them elect to be vegetarian or vegan. And, you know, there’s all sorts of, with those populations, you’re gonna be very incredibly mindful to get more protein and amino acids on board.
Um, it’s almost like it’s, you’re springing the trap for this thing pre 18. So, you know, a couple generations back we stopped, you know, hoeing, the hoeing, the farm or whatever [00:12:00] we were doing. I’m assuming the numbers have gone up dramatically.
kevin-ellis_1_01-26-2024_162721: I think they’ll continue to rise. And yeah, the lifestyle changes. People aren’t out playing. Kids aren’t out playing till dark, being called back in for dinner. They’re sitting on their couches on the tablets with their, their neck slumped over. Just, you know, looking at a screen that’s not gonna be helpful.
We need to get the kids up. We need to be active. We need to get ’em in sports. We need to get ’em doing gym gymnastics, and. Get them to prioritize protein, whatever that looks like for you, you can just, because your kid says they don’t want to eat a certain thing, if that’s what’s available, if that’s what you made for dinner, they’ll eventually come to come to eat what you’re eating.
You’re also setting the example for them too. I’m really, I’m actually very passionate about this. I have two young kids of my own five and seven, and I also meet with people that are. Parents and grandparents, and this is a concern for them. They’re in a [00:13:00] position of, I have osteoporosis and bone loss. I want to take care of me, but I also wanna be the shepherd for the other people in my life and help, help make sure that they don’t get to this point too.
So there are a lot of things that you can do to help support them in a young age. H.
Track 1: So if I’m listening to you thinking, uh oh, I grew up, uh, on. On Cocoa Pebbles and Atari. Um, is there hope for me, right? Because you said, you said most of the, the foundation was laid by 18 10%. Maybe after that, how much can we effectively change that density? How much can we fix this problem in our adult years?
kevin-ellis_1_01-26-2024_162721: That you absolutely can make progress, make improvement, make changes, build bone density, improve bone quality, improve your bone strength. A couple notes I’ll make, so bone density. There’s, there’s something called a bone density scan. That’s what is gonna tell you. You have osteoporosis, right? So you get this bone density scan, it tells you the mineral [00:14:00] content of your bone, then it generates a score.
The doctor’s gonna look at that score and say, Hey, if it’s plus one or minus one, that’s normal and healthy. If it’s minus one to minus 2.5, that’s osteopenia, which is what we would call low bone mass. And that’s like a precursor to osteoporosis. And if it’s minus 2.5 or lower minus 2.6, minus 2.7, that’s considered osteoporosis.
Now, the greater the negative number becomes, the more severe the osteoporosis. But no matter where you are on that spectrum, you can still make progress and improvement. The, the piece of the picture most people don’t have when they get that bone density scan is the quality piece. So the density is the mineral content of the bone.
The quality piece is the structural integrity, the micro architecture, how that bone is organized. Those two things combine to create bone strength so you can get that quality part of the picture. When you first get that, that bone density scan, there is a technology called TBS [00:15:00] Trabecular Bone Score.
That’s like an add-on software to dexa. You can ask to get that, that technology and ask, call the facility ahead of time. Ask ’em if they have it available. If they do, you can get that piece of the picture too. But that’s another. Thing that you can monitor over time. And the other thing that you can monitor over time to check for improvements is something called their bone turnover markers.
And these are tests that look at the activity level of cells that are building up and breaking down your bone. So there’s one called the serum, CTX. That’s the CT low peptide test. That’s the most sensitive marker for bone resorption or breakdown. And if that activity level is really high or elevated, that can be an indicator of active bone loss and a root cause issue that needs to be addressed.
There’s also a bone turnover marker called P one NP Pro, collagen type one and terminal propeptide. That’s the most sensitive marker for bone formation. [00:16:00] We can look at the activity level of these cells as leading and near term indicators of what’s going on in between these bone density scans. The reason I’m bringing these things up is.
You don’t just have to guess if the things that you’re doing are actually making an impact. You can look at some of these markers and see is bone resorption coming down? Is bone formation coming up? Is the ratio between the two improving and are you starting to move in the right direction before you get to that bone density, bone quality, uh, scans.
But even at the one year, one and a half year, two year marks, you can start to see improvements in those scans for bone density and bone quality as well. I. And there are a lot of things that you can do and we can talk very specifically about what those things are, uh, to make improvement in building bone strength.
Track 1: It seems like the DEXA scoreboard has now become a dashboard. With multiple gauges. Um, yeah. I’m curious, we don’t have to go too far into the [00:17:00] weeds, but if you have too much reabsorption, what is the Strat, what are the levers to pull, um, if you want, uh, to build up the matrix? Are you going on a vibrational plate?
Like just curious about the interventions and what you, what you see moving the needle needles, I guess.
kevin-ellis_1_01-26-2024_162721: Yeah, of course. So if, if somebody has really high osteoclast activity that that serum CTX is really high, they’re losing a lot of bone, something is contributing to that loss. So the first thing that has to happen is figure out what’s contributing to that loss, that that bone loss, what is the root cause issue behind it.
So once you can figure that out. You can start addressing those things. Is it related to just hormones? Hormones obviously play a role. You know, for some women it’s considering bioidentical hormone replacement therapy, uh, for others if that’s not the right fit for them. It’s looking to see what are the other causes and [00:18:00] contributors that are either things that you’re actively putting into your body like a medication or maybe some kind of toxin or something like that in your environment that you need to get rid of, or it’s something that’s already existing within that needs to be addressed.
So those are the the most important primary levers that have to be looked at for bringing that bone resorption down
Track 1: Question on that before we go to the next category. You hear a lot about carbonated sugary drinks. You hear a lot about carbonated water and you know the effects. How much of that is moving the needle? How much of that are you seeing as contributors to the reabsorption?
kevin-ellis_1_01-26-2024_162721: Yeah. The. The carbonated waters aren’t gonna really play that much of a role unless it’s a carbonated, sugary beverage, like a soda or something like that, that has phosphoric acid in it that’s gonna deplete your bones. Uh, but if it’s just carbonated water, uh, something like a girl Steiner or something like that and you’re doing that a couple times a week, that’s not gonna be a big
Track 1: That’s great. [00:19:00] I’ve, I’ve heard people bicker about that, and I’ve never seen the science to support it.
kevin-ellis_1_01-26-2024_162721: I haven’t either. Um, so, uh, the other, so the other side now, so if we go to, um, the side of bone formation, we can take in, we’ll talk about the nutrients in a second, but we can take in all the nutrients, we can fix the gut, we can do all that stuff. We can make sure we’re absorbing. But if you are not providing the stimulus that your bones need to become stronger, they will not become stronger.
So now that’s where we have to bring in exercise as, as the one of the number one interventions that you have to be doing if you want to build stronger bones. And there are different types of exercise and what bone needs is two different types of stimuli. You need muscle pulling on bone and you need impact.
The most effective interventions are gonna use one or both of those in combination. Okay, so, uh, a lot of people are just told when they go to their doctors, take some calcium, take some vitamin D, go [00:20:00] for a walk. Here’s your bone drug. We’ll see you in two years for your next bone density scan. That’s woefully inadequate.
It’s not enough. And walking specifically is not enough to support healthy bones. Is it important? Yes. And should you be walking every day? Of course. But it’s not gonna be the only thing that you can do. ’cause think about it. If you’re walking, where is that impact taking place? Only on your lower half. Is it a dynamic impact?
Is it coming from different angles or is it in the same direction every single step that you’re taking, right? So that’s one reason why it’s not gonna be enough. You have to have weight bearing exercise and resistance training as part of your plan. So weight-bearing exercise, that’s where your body and your bones are working against gravity to keep you upright.
There are things that you’re doing on your feet and they’re placing a good, healthy stress on the bones. So this would be, that’s where walking is included in that. Walking, hiking, jogging, [00:21:00] uh, gardening, keeping up, playing with the kids, the grandkids in the, in the yard, outside pickleball, tennis, uh, yoga, Pilates, Tai Chi, Qigong, all of those things fall in that weight bearing category.
So that’s one thing. If you’re doing those things, keep doing ’em. Right. That’s good. There’s also non-weightbearing exercise though, and these are where your body and your bones are not working against gravity to keep you upright so they’re not placing that good healthy stress on your bones. What would those be?
Swimming is the number one there, so if all you’re doing every single week or every day is getting in the pool, you’re swimming a little bit, you get out, you’re like, that’s it for my exercise. I’ve done great. You haven’t. You have to include, uh, the other form of exercise I’m gonna talk about in a minute, which is resistance training.
And it’s not to say if you like to swim and it brings you joy and it reduces your stress and makes you happy, keep [00:22:00] doing it. By all means, but don’t count that as the only form of exercise that you’re doing. Okay? And, uh, cycling is another one. Long distance cycling and things like that, uh, you, you still have to get on your feet, put some good healthy stress on your bones.
Now let’s get into resistance training and muscle strengthening exercise. This is the key part of this plan right here, and this is where we’re bringing in. Uh, could be barbells. Or dumbbells or if you’re more comfortable with the, the machines at the gym or, I, I really like variable resistance bands. I like those.
And the, some of the best exercises to incorporate for your bone health, squats, deadlifts, overhead presses, uh, doing some drop landings, box jumps, those kinds of things can be really helpful. But those are movements that are moving lots of different parts of your, of your body at the same time. And I know if you’re, if you’re not familiar with [00:23:00] exercising or even deadlift, like that’s one that people hear that and they’re like, oh my gosh, that sounds terrifying.
It doesn’t have, you can learn the proper form. You can work with somebody to help you figure out the proper form. Look at your body mechanics, and you don’t have to start with the bodybuilder heavy weight from the start. You start with a lower weight. With good form and you slowly progress up to where you can provide that stimulus.
Your, your body, your bones need to become stronger, which isn’t that five to 10 repetition range is a great, a great place to be. So those are some great exercises, very specific, uh, that you can take away from this and say, okay, if there are things that I’m gonna start implementing today, those, it can be those exercises specifically.
Track 1: And if you’re looking for leverage in life, it’s. Important to note that those exercises happen to also help increase, uh, muscle mass. Mitochondria give you more energy, push your [00:24:00] testosterone, make you a happier human on planet Earth and all the other benefits. It’s like you should just be doing them anyways.
The bone growth is just one more reason to say, this is the obvious move. Everyone should be moving their bodies in this way, period. And if you’re not functionally fit enough, you work your way up to it Like Kevin said.
kevin-ellis_1_01-26-2024_162721: Yep. Absolutely agree.
Track 1: So you’d mentioned nutrition and the nutrients needed on this side of the ledger. Um, so you know, now, you know, we’ve, we’ve kind of taken away some of the liabilities.
Now we’re kind of building assets. What does that look like in terms of what we’re eating, how we’re eating it? And you know, that you start to get into the nutrition fights, like, well you don’t take this calcium, you take this magnesium, calcium. And people are just wrestling all the time. So curious ’cause you’re looking at everyone’s lab data, how, what works?
kevin-ellis_1_01-26-2024_162721: Yeah. Uh, well, let’s start with a couple, uh, really important nutrients that most people already hear are important for your health and for your bones. But I’m just gonna give it another vote here. Vitamin D is [00:25:00] critically important for your health and for your bones. And if you are in those colder weather months, the sun’s rays are not gonna generate enough Vitamin D production.
So supplementing is probably gonna be helpful. Now, before you go supplement. Randomly with vitamin D, it is a hormone. It’s not just a vitamin. So get the 25 hydroxy vitamin D test through your doctor. Look at where your levels are at. If you’re in the US, that range is really wide. For normal, it’s like 30 to a hundred NGML.
And if you’re at 30, you’re gonna be told that’s normal, right? If you’re at 98, you’re gonna be told that’s normal. So you need to know, you need to come a little bit closer to center, right? And then. If you’re low or below those numbers, you definitely need to boost them up. Boost them up, pardon me. And just know that again, if you’re in winter, you’re probably gonna wanna supplement in addition to the foods that you’re bringing in.
So the foods that you can bring in, uh, those would be like, I don’t know, fatty fish is one, one source. [00:26:00] You could do eggs, uh, mushrooms could be another source, uh, though that’s D two, but. You wanna make sure you’re getting enough Vitamin D. So that’s one. Uh, the next one that’s really important, another fat soluble nutrient.
So you want to take this with fat, with a meal is vitamin K two. Now, a lot of people have heard of vitamin K, uh, K one can be converted to K two not too efficiently. K two is what’s most important for your, your bones. So K two is helping activate something called osteocalcin. Matrix GLA protein. This is helping make sure that calcium that you’re taking in is actually going to the bones to help support bone building and not to the soft tissues like the kidneys and the arteries, which is going to cause a lot of health issues down the road.
So K two is very important. You can get it from dietary sources. So if we’re talking about vitamin K one, uh, you’re gonna get it from your [00:27:00] dark, green, leafy vegetables, asparagus, broccoli, chard, those kinds of things. If you’re talking about K two and you’re looking at food sources of K two, there’s different forms of it, but MK four, you’re gonna get from beef, liver, grass fed ghee, butter, dark meat, pastured egg yolks, emu oil.
Those are all your K two MK fours and K two, MK seven. You can get from hard cheeses, fermented food sauerkraut, kimchi, nato. NATO is actually one of the highest sources of that. It’s not, not gonna be the most flavorful thing, but, um, and then also bacterial fermentation in our guts. So there are ways to get vitamin K two, but you can also supplement with that as well if, but I, I always encourage people, start with your diet nutrition first.
Then close the gaps with supplementation if and when necessary. So, especially when it comes to things like calcium, because for calcium, uh, a lot of people ask me, are you for or against [00:28:00] calcium or like calcium supplementation? If you can get it through diet nutrition first, do that. A lot of times people have issues with nutrient absorption or they just can’t seem to get enough in their diet.
In those cases, you can supplement, but if you’re supplementing, you’re not doing it more than 500 milligrams a day, absolute max, because if you’re doing that, you’re increasing your cardiovascular disease risk, you’re increasing your risk of kidney stones, and that’s just not a good place to be. In terms of forms of calcium, calcium citrate has probably the most.
The most studies behind it, the greatest safety record behind it. Um, and MCHC, calcium, microcrystalline, hydroxy appetite, calcium, that is like bone meal. That’s a great form of calcium. ’cause it’s not just calcium, it’s got protein and growth factors and other things in it too. But if somebody has poor stomach acid, they might have a hard time with that MCHC form of calcium.
So citrate. [00:29:00] Uh, or malate or another form of calcium paired with, uh, an organic acid that could be a more absorbable form for them that doesn’t require as much stomach acid. So, um, and then vitamin C. Vitamin C is, I think we all hear about vitamin C and how important it’s for our health. It’s also important for your bones.
The reason for that is your bones are a collagen protein matrix structure upon which these minerals are laid. Vitamin C stimulates pro collagen. It enhances collagen synthesis and it stimulates something called alkaline phosphatase activity, which is a marker for bone building cell formation. So you need vitamin C Uh, and then the other side of it is if you’re not getting enough longer term, you’re gonna increase your risk of fracture.
So you get it from your food, uh, first if you can. Berries, citrus fruits, those kinds of things can be really helpful. Um, but also you can get it from veggies and you [00:30:00] can supplement too if you need to.
Track 1: So I know someone right now listening to us took notes is gonna go on to Amazon, order that stuff and say, let’s, let’s play. Let’s make a deal. I’ll get all this stuff and take it. That’s about as willing as I am to participate in my bone health. But I’m not doing any deadlifts, man. That sounds like too much work.
I’m not gonna do the weight bearing stuff. I, that’s not built into my habit stack. But I’ll take a bunch of supplements, maybe some calcium, um, um, that should be enough. Right? And that’s, that’s what I see a lot in clinical care. I see a lot of people kind of do half the prescription.
kevin-ellis_1_01-26-2024_162721: Yeah.
Track 1: half the results or is that 5% of the results?
Right? Like I just, I wanna, I want to just level set with people who do that all the time.
kevin-ellis_1_01-26-2024_162721: Yeah, if you, at best, if all you’re doing is just supplementing and you’re not doing the exercise port at best, you might have a slow decline. [00:31:00] Um, or, or maybe, maybe be able to maintain, right? But. You have to, you have to do the exercise portion of this. You have to, and yes, I get it. I hear people out there saying, I have back pain, or My neck hurts, my shoulder hurts.
There are modifications, adjustments and tweaks that you can make to exercise to where you can still do something and, and still provide some of that stimulus. So you’re not just doing nothing. Like, I get it. Pain can compromise your body mechanics, it can put you at greater risk of injury, but there are ways around those things.
So, uh, but I, I understand what you’re saying. If it’s not easy and if it’s not just a pill in a bottle, you know, then, then people aren’t gonna do it. This is not one of those things. If you already have osteoporosis, do not think that you can just out supplement this. You have to put in the work, and the work doesn’t have to take over your entire life.
The things I just talked about, the squats, the deadlifts, the overhead presses. You could [00:32:00] provide that stimulus two to three times a week. Get in a good 10, 15 minute exercise two to three times a week. If that’s all you can put in, great. That’s so much better. And don’t, you can’t tell me you don’t have 10 minutes, you don’t have 15 minutes.
It’s there. It’s, are you willing to put in the work?
Track 1: Yeah, it’s a, it’s a question of redistribution, right?
kevin-ellis_1_01-26-2024_162721: Yeah. Yeah. And, and when it comes to, just one other point on that is like the, are you willing to put in the work? You have to have a solid reason why I. You have to move toward whatever that why is like, I always encourage people, you don’t have to know where every step is placed day one. You just have to know where you want your path to lead and why you want to get there.
So for me, uh, when I was first told I had osteoporosis back when I was 30 years old, my why was I wanted to dance with my daughter on her wedding day. That is still in my head today. I’m gonna be there, I’m gonna be, I’m gonna be [00:33:00] doing flips with her on that day. Right. That is my why. And that is, there’s nothing that can come against that.
You have to figure out what is your why. Why is it important for you to live an extra 10, 20, 30 years longer? ’cause that’s what this can do if you take care of your skeleton.
Track 1: Good man. Uh, before I leave the, let’s make a deal category, some people. Are like, well, it’s, you know, it’s in my family history, it’s my genetics. And the doctor said, there’s nothing you can do about it. Here’s your pills. Right. And they are willing to just get overwhelmed by the doctor’s advice, because obviously it’s your genetics.
And so just shut up and take the pill. This is what we do. This is standard of care. What’s your response to that?
kevin-ellis_1_01-26-2024_162721: Yeah. Well, number one, genetics do play a role, right? But they’re not the destiny. They, they don’t, there are so many things that you can do. You can help ex your genes express themselves more favorably. And there are a lot of things that you can do that are beyond [00:34:00] just what the doctor will tell you in the office.
And I’m not saying that, that all doctors, you know, that are in the office, they wanna see their patients get better a lot of times. But the system that they’re in and the, the guidance they’re providing under that system is not designed to help you achieve your best possible health outcome. So. I just said the standard recommendation for 90% of the people I see is that they’ve received, take some calcium, take some vitamin D.
Go for a walk. Take this bone drug and we’ll see you in two years for your next bone density scan. When it comes to these bone medications that will be proposed. If you are going to your conventional physician and you’re having a conversation, know that the tool that they have in their toolkit to help you at the end of that conversation.
It is a pharmaceutical, and I would liken the use of these drugs to that old economic adage. There’s no such thing as a free lunch. There are risks and side effects and short and long-term implications with everything that you do, including taking these medications. It’s not like [00:35:00] taking, you know, an aspirin.
These have a dramatic effect on bone physiology too. There are different categories of drugs. There are antiresorptives, there are anabolics. Under the antiresorptives, there are bisphosphonates, which a lot of people have heard of, and there are rank lain inhibitors. Under the bisphosphonates, Fosamax is one that a lot of people are, are, are familiar with and have heard about, or maybe they know somebody who’s taken it.
The safety and efficacy of those bisphosphonates is not really well known beyond five years. And as you and I are going about our daily lives, doing our daily activities, uh, working out, doing chores around the house, you’re starting to get these tiny little micro cracks and micro fractures in your bones.
That’s normal. For every single person happens all the time. And then what happens is we have cells within the bone that’s, they’re called osteocytes, that sense that damage, and they send out a signal [00:36:00] and they say, Hey, we need to become stronger. And there’s these other cells called osteoclast and osteoblasts that receive that message and they come in and they scoop out that damaged bone.
The osteoblasts come and fill stronger, healthier bone in that is normal bone remodeling process that’s supposed to happen. When you take some of these medications, especially for Mel, multiple years, pardon me, um, you can start to slow down that activity level too much to where you accumulate that old, worn damage, weakened bone over time.
So even if you’re taking one of those medications and the bone density. Shows as being higher or that your bone density is better. Remember the quality, the quality, the structural integrity may not be so the bone may not actually be stronger, maybe weaker bone. So that’s why I think it was important for you to understand it’s not just about the density and the mineral content.
[00:37:00] It’s about the quality and the structural integrity. How do you get better structural integrity? How do you build better micro architecture exercise? exercise.
Track 1: So this leads to, uh. Somewhat political question in that. Okay. Um, I need to go to this gatekeeper to get my DEXA scan and the four other tests that you recommended, and I gotta ask them to get this thing and tell ’em why. Knowing that his hurry up and get outta my office. Um, algorithm is, do this thing, here’s your Fosamax.
So how does one navigate the getting the test and then shifting their algorithm to a different thing? Like, how do you broach this conversation with docs that usually don’t even have time? I mean, they, they could be as well intentioned as can be. They don’t have time for this.
kevin-ellis_1_01-26-2024_162721: Yeah. This is actually, there’s a statement that I have that I tell people to say to their doctors, uh, and it’s, give me a year. [00:38:00] This is the statement that I always wanted the patients to be able to go to their doctors and say, if it makes sense, but give me a year. And it’s not saying, ’cause again, that doctor has just recommended a medication.
In that situation, if that’s the only person you have to help move you forward in your healthcare, you, you need them at least to get some tests ordered. So how do you not put a wall between you and that person? You say, Hey, look, hands up. I’m not saying no, I’m just saying not yet. Can you help me get a little more information?
Look, I’m just trying to make the most educated, informed decision for my health long term. I, I want you to be my advocate here. I wanna work with you. Can you help me approach it like that? Even a doctor that has an ego. Can, can appreciate and respect that. No, you’re not saying no to my opinion. You’re just saying, I want a little more information.
Right? They understand that, and that’s when you can then present them, Hey, I want to get these, these are [00:39:00] the tests that I know are important. You know that for my health and for my bones. Can you help me get the, get these tests? And that is the right way to try to move forward with that. Now, let’s say in the very rare percentage of time that that doesn’t work, that approach doesn’t work.
Then you can, then you can go outside. You can get the tests outside of those doctors without actually having a doctor. You can get those tests in a cost effective way, so you have options to get that information that you need.
Track 1: That’s great. That’s great because the gatekeeper, yes, sometimes has ego. Uh. Yes, can feel like they are, you know, oh, what’d you go to Dr. Google? Right. And, and I know a lot of doctors that are very sensitive to that because there’s also a lot of garbage on Google, and so they are dealing with misinformation coming in every day and having to argue, you know, for the science.
But you must, I mean, I’m sure you have it on your website, like where you can get these tests as a consumer and order them [00:40:00] without having to go through a gatekeeper.
kevin-ellis_1_01-26-2024_162721: Yep. We do all that stuff. We tell people how to get all the tests and we give you, we give people like copy and paste messaging templates for their patient portals. We give you PDFs to take into your doctors to have those kinds of conversations. We list out the verbatim. Language. Just say this. Just have ’em read this.
Right. And it just makes that conversation so much easier because what you just said is they have patients every single day that bring into them a list of random things from Google. Now, some of these things may be very valid things, right, that they should be looked into. But if you’re the doctor, and this is me putting myself in the doctor’s shoes too, um, ’cause I think we have to do that sometimes.
Is they see how many patients a day. Let’s say they, they see one every 15 minutes and they work for eight hours a day. They’re seeing a lot of patients in one day. And if every single patient has a new list that they brought from Google and the majority of them are not on the mark, over time, [00:41:00] they’re just gonna develop in their mind like, okay, this is just the approach.
I can’t look at this. Like, let me just do my protocol and move forward. So that’s me putting myself in the doctor’s shoes. Is that right? No, I don’t think so. Like the patient is not getting the attention and the care that they need. But is that the way the system that you are going to because you have insurance and you’re going to your doctor, is that the system that you’re going into trying to achieve a different outcome than they can provide you?
I. That’s exactly what it’s Right. So sometimes you have to go outside of that model. That’s why we exist too. Right? That’s why, uh, Dr. Pham, that’s why all the things you do, the way that you help people and all the other people in the, the functional, integrative, natural health space, that’s why we exist.
Because sometimes you have to go outside to get those additional resources that you need in that particular area.
Track 1: Yeah, I mean, if you’re trying to get maple syrup out of a, a bees honeycomb, um, it’s, it’s tough, right? So you gotta know the translational gaps and. Understand how to get what [00:42:00] you need out of the system. If not, you gotta go out of the system, which will probably cost a couple more bucks. Right. And that’s, that’s just the way of things.
kevin-ellis_1_01-26-2024_162721: Yep.
Track 1: Kevin. I think that this is extremely important and relevant for anyone who, uh, lives in a human body, frankly. ’cause I think we’re all starting to do this with our, our bone density. I’m in the gym four days a week, and I’m worried about it just because lifestyle has become a lot more sedentary. I’m sitting here talking to you right now, right?
Like, I’m gonna go get up and get, you know, on my, my trampoline and do the things. Um, how can people find out more about this? What’s the best way to signpost them to your work?
kevin-ellis_1_01-26-2024_162721: Well, you can always find me@bonecoach.com. That’s the best place to find me. We’ve got helpful resources. Uh, we’ve got, uh, you know, we’ve got a full stronger bones program over there called The Stronger Bone Solution. You can apply for that program if you want. Uh, Dr. Payton, what I’d love to do is if. I have a free Stronger Bones Masterclass too, and a Bone Healthy Recipes Guide.
Track 1: [00:43:00] I’ve had nothing but great feedback from people who I’ve sent your way, and so, um, whatever you’re doing, you’re doing some good work and you’re doing it right and you’re doing it with a sincere approach, so really appreciate you.
kevin-ellis_1_01-26-2024_162721: I appreciate you. Thank you so much.
Track 1: Thank you. But we’ll see you again.
Hope you enjoyed that as much as I did. Kevin’s a great guy. He is helped a lot of people. I’ve sent a lot of my patients his way over the years, and guess what, uh, the healthcare system is not equipped to handle this problem. So if you or someone you know is been, you know, doing this deal and taking the pills and waiting for the inevitable and, and just getting the T scores and they’re all meh, you’re probably in the wrong game.
You are in a trap. And that model is designed to keep you meh and not thriving. So step out, wake up and smell the coffee here. Step out of the trap. Do something to make yourself better. Get your life back. Don’t waste those heartbeats. I’ll put a link to his programs in the show notes. Just go to the urban [00:44:00] monk.com/podcast.
You’ll find this podcast, I’ll put it there. Uh, help yourself, help someone in need. But this is how it happens, is you gotta take action. You gotta get your feet moving under you, and then results come. We’ll see you in the next one.
www.theurbanmonk.com