Biohacking for Longevity: A Conversation with Dave Asprey

Meet Dave Asprey

Dave Asprey is an award-winning entrepreneur and tech innovator known around the world as, “The Father of Biohacking.” He’s a multi-New York Times and national bestselling author of Game Changers, Head Strong, The Bulletproof Diet, and Smarter Not Harder, the creator of Bulletproof Coffee, and the host of the Webby Award-winning #1 rated health show, The Human Upgrade Podcast (formerly Bulletproof Radio). Dave is the founder and CEO of Upgrade Labs, the first franchise of biohacking gyms, and Danger Coffee, his mineralized, mold-free coffee.

Over the last two decades Dave has worked with world-renowned doctors, researchers, scientists, and global mavericks to uncover the latest, most innovative methods, techniques and products for enhancing mental and physical performance. Dave has personally spent over $2 million taking control of his own biology – pushing the bounds of human possibility all in the name of science evolution and revolution.

The creator of the Bulletproof diet and innovator of Bulletproof Coffee, Collagen Protein supplements and many more advances in commercial wellness products, Dave’s mission is to empower the entire globe with information and knowledge that unlocks the Super Human in everyone at any age. The proof of these advancements are better sleep, energy, and expanded capacity for all.

Listen to the episode on Spotify here or on your favorite podcast platform.

Podcast transcript:

Hey, welcome back to the urban monk podcast. Excited to be here. Excited to share an old friend, Dave Asprey. Uh, probably needs no introduction, but I’ll do it anyways. Uh, he’s pretty much the founder of biohacking. Dave has been around since the very beginning. Um, I remember in 2010, Meeting Dave Asprey at the consumer health summit, where he was wearing cargo pants in those five fingered Vibram shoes. And wearing blue blocker glasses.

And that was before any of this stuff was cool. And I’m thinking to myself, wow, who the hell is that guy? So I started talking to him and I go, wow. I like that guy. We became fast friends. We’ve been friends ever since. Dave’s had a very interesting career. He has been very vocal about a great many things.

He’s a trendsetter. He is ahead of the curve on most things. And he will go out on a limb and he doesn’t care. And I like that about the guy. I’m really excited to share this with you. Enjoy Dave Asprey.

Dr Pedram Shojai: David. It’s good to see you and you look good, man.

Dave Asprey: Oh, thanks. It’s, it’s been a little while, probably like a year since we last connected in person, so it’s, it’s good to see you, my

Dr Pedram Shojai: Yeah. Yeah. So you’re now in Austin, Texas.

Dave Asprey: I am indeed. I’m enjoying it here. Uh, I am, uh, uh, I’m feeling like I kind of came back to my roots. I’m from New Mexico, so I’m enjoying my time in Austin quite a

Dr Pedram Shojai: Yeah. And the weather. I mean, listen, the weather aside from a couple months, a year is, is pretty good. Um, and the lifestyle there, I’ve really come to enjoy. So, and you probably have a gajillion people, you know, and your, you know, your community’s big now over there.

Dave Asprey: It, it’s really strange. Uh, one of the reasons I decided to spend some quality time here, uh, and still stay connected, uh, to my home in Canada is I needed some sunshine and the difference in just my metabolic health. I’ve, I’ve been talking about sun for, you know, 15 years now as part of biohacking. Uh, but just being able to go out and see sunlight in the morning and I was funny in winter, in, in the darker parts of the world. You go outside, there’s no sun, and there’s just, you know, fog. And it actually, it’s not about being depressed or not being depressed, it’s about having cells that make electricity or don’t. Uh, and this is why people in darker parts of the world oftentimes take long vacations in Hawaii or Florida or somewhere. Um, but for me to be able to spend a little bit more time seeing the sun has been really impactful. I’m, I’m leaner than I’ve ever been. I’m doing, doing a lot of other biohacking, some of the longevity stuff I’ve written about. Takes a while to kick in. Just did gene therapy for longevity and some cutting edge stuff and I don’t know.

Dave Asprey: I’m just having a blast,

Dr Pedram Shojai: That’s so good. You know, it’s funny, as I was, I was just telling Dave offline that one of my best friends moved to Austin and, um, you know, I, we had the biggest winter ever last year. Or in Park City. Um, and that means no sunny days, right? And I was, um, FaceTiming with this guy, Italian American white guy, and I’m like, this guy’s darker than me.

Dr Pedram Shojai: Like, how the fuck did I lose a hundred thousand year lead in one season? How, how am I pale compared to my friend who lives in Austin? And so it really made me think twice about the amount of sunshine I need to, you know, be exposing myself to living on this icy rock. Um. You know, it’s got its benefits. We do a lot of altitude training around here,

Dave Asprey: This kind of goes back to your, your urban monk roots. Um, melanin is something that makes your skin dark, makes your hair dark, and if you have hair, I’m just saying,

Dave Asprey: uh, and

Dr Pedram Shojai: rubbing in Dave

Dave Asprey: uh, Sorry, I I had to say it only ’cause we’re. Also though, there’s melanin inside the back of your eyes where sun never goes. Even in your brain there’s melanin and people call it junk melanin. That’s what scientists have called it, and whenever a scientist says something in your body is junk, what it means is. I have a big ego. I don’t know what it’s for. Therefore it’s junk and it never is because mother nature doesn’t waste one drop of electricity or one drop of of fuel it. It is as maximally allocated, as as it can be over billions of years of evolution. So what’s it for? Well, it turns out melanin. It helps your body convert sunlight into electricity. And there are now medical studies I’ve written about in some of my books showing that up to 10% of your energy needs can be met by the human equivalent of photosynthesis. No, you don’t have chlorophyll. You’re not a plant, you’re not the swamp thing. But sunlight actually can contribute electrons into your body. more importantly, melanin protects you from free radicals and it makes you more resilient. And this is why as, um, in fact, my, my roommate in college who was black, uh, would, would tell me, he’d say, black, don’t crack, right? And I was like, what do you mean? He goes, dude, we all know this. Like when we get old, we don’t have wrinkles and you guys look like, you know, your face is falling off.

Dave Asprey: And I was like, oh my God, he’s right. So, you know what’s going on there is melanin protective. So. You can get melanin with an injection, and that’s what I do. So for me to get sunshine, I have the vitamin D receptors of, uh, someone who should live on a South Pacific island genetically, even though I don’t have those genetics. But that means if I get enough sun to make my vitamin D levels happy, my skin will probably fall off. Okay. It’ll just like really age quickly from ultraviolet radiation. So what’s a biohacker to do? Well. I inject a compound called Melanocytes stimulating Hormone or Melanotan two, and at very high doses it can cause cancer in rats, but it’s exceptionally high. Um, at normal human doses, it appears to be anti-cancer, and what it does is it means I get darker skin in 20 minutes of sun exposure, and so I build a tan that protects my biology, makes me more energetic, makes me feel better, even helps to regulate blood sugar better because I have a healthy glow without getting all the sun aging that would otherwise come. Now one of my friends from Northern India heard about this and said, I’m gonna try injecting, uh, melanotan. Now Melanotan is good for that stuff. Melanotan has a side effect that the sun also has, which is it increases libido. Kind of dramatically. Uh, and so he is like, I’m gonna try that stuff. And he calls me about six weeks later.

Dave Asprey: He goes, Dave, I’m like six shades darker. Like, like my family’s like, oh no, it’s the end of the world. Because in some parts of the world, darker skin is not associated with longevity, even though it is, you know, mechanistically. But just societally, people are somehow wanting to change the color of their skin. So I would say you want to be. At a healthy color for whatever your skin tone normally is. But if you find you’re getting lighter than you normally were, you need to do something about it, which means get some sun or get some melanin in your skin anyway. And you’ll live longer, you’ll be happier. And sun exposure is correlated with having higher levels of dopamine. Uh, dopamine, as you know, it makes you happier. Right? It makes you more motivated. And this is so funny. There’s a study that shows That suntan lights, that kind of exposure or sun exposure, raises dopamine. So the medical industrial complex says, well, clearly suntan lamps and the sun are addictive, therefore we should ban them.

Dave Asprey: And you should never go in the sun without being, you know, covered with chemicals that cause skin cancer, which a lot of sunscreen does. And it’s absurd.

Dave Asprey: So if you wanna be a happy human being, sunlight’s important, different people need different levels. But if you aren’t doing it. You, you probably could, you probably could get some sun, my

Dr Pedram Shojai: Yeah, a hundred percent. Well, we get a lot of sun. Normally we get snow, sun, snow, sun. It’s a, it’s a great place to live. Uh, except when you get the best powder, you’re on record and then you don’t see any sun. You mentioned, uh, the melanocyte, you know, this, this peptide Wild, wild west, right? Like it’s, you know, everyone thought peptides were gonna change, you know, everything.

Dr Pedram Shojai: And then the, the . You know, the feds jumped in and started regulating the hell out of it, and now it’s, it’s, it’s in this kind of, you know, squeezy land. Um, a almost everyone I know in the health business is playing with peptides. Everyone I know is, you know, playing with these things. What’s your, what’s your take on the peptides?

Dr Pedram Shojai: Where do you think the industry’s going and where does upgrade labs sit with this?

Dave Asprey: Well, if you, uh, if you have a chance to read Superhuman, this is my New York Times bestselling longevity book, and it’s, uh, it is, it came out, I think in 2019 and it’s really stood the test of time. I, uh, a lot of the, the newer books you’ll read are using exactly the same framework I. Uh, and I talk about peptides, and there’s sort of two categories. There’s newer synthesized peptides that we’re familiar with. Things like BPC 1 57 that speeds healing. And I’ve written lots of blog posts about those over the years. Some of them are very potent for anti-aging. Um, but. There’s another set of them called bio regulatory peptides. And these are things that came out of Russia, which automatically means you have to cancel them, uh, depending on which party you vote for, which is absurd.

Dave Asprey: ’cause last I heard, science doesn’t have a political party unless a political party is abusing science to seize control of your business or your home. So let’s assume that that’s not happening here.

Dave Asprey: The Russian the Russian research on this is really powerful. These are peptides that are made by young animals that cause certain organ systems to grow.

Dave Asprey: So they’re the, the bio signals that tell the body, Hey, grow a thymus, grow, uh, uh, your pineal gland, grow your skin, get healthier, get younger, and they work orally. So these are things I wrote about extensively in Superhuman. So for people who are interested in this stuff, that’s a go-to resource for you. And I, I’ve been using those for quite a while. Uh, one of my favorites is called pineal, and that actually works to stimulate your pineal gland. How do you say it? Pineal or pineal? I still don’t

Dr Pedram Shojai: I say pine still, um, you know it’s tomato tomato to a lot.

Dave Asprey: Say it’s potato. I dunno. I talk to different experts in the field, including me. None of us

Dave Asprey: knows. exactly how you’re supposed to

Dr Pedram Shojai: There’s no, I mean, you know, say it with authority and you’re right. Um, for my audience whom may or may not know why someone would wanna stimulate their pineal gland, if you would, um, why do you do it?

Dave Asprey: I would’ve thought your audience would know,

Dave Asprey: have you not been educating them Well at Petra, I mean,

Dr Pedram Shojai: I mean, honestly, I’m just, maybe I’m just not interviewing the right guys.

Dave Asprey: I’m hoping that our listeners can tell that we’ve known each other for like 10 years, uh, to the point we give each other crap and no one’s feelings are hurt. Um, so let’s see here. Uh, we have, we have this part of our brain that. Really helps you to connect to the world outside of you. It’s considered a spiritual center.

Dave Asprey: So you see people, you know, the third eye pictures of things streaming out. And in almost every meditative practice there’s references to this. It’s shaped like a pine cone, which is where it gets its name. And even if you look at ancient carvings and temples in India, uh, and actually I’ve seen some of the carvings in at Ancor Watt in Cambodia, like, so this is a known thing, old Egyptian stuff. And this is kind of the seat of spiritual consciousness and some of the compounds that, um, governments regularly spray, especially since after World War ii. Um, they calcify and they disable this thing. So if you want to have a advanced meditation in spiritual practice, having a functioning pineal gland is very, very important. So this is one of those things that can do it. And the compounds I’m talking about here that reduce iq, reduce motivation, make you more docile. Uh, the number one is fluoride, right? And, and people saying, what do you mean fluoride stops cavities? So here’s my data points. Number one, my grandfather Co-invented the process for purifying plutonium for reactors. It’s called a purex process. He was one of the preeminent fluorine chemists, uh, in the entire world. Wrote for the Encyclopedia Britannica, which was basically wiki, Wikipedia replaced it except Wikipedia is run by a bunch of narcissists. Like weird human beings.

Dave Asprey: I don’t trust anything on Wikipedia, by the way. They don’t know my birthdate or my year and half the info on there is, is paid for by big Pharma. But back when we had, you know, like a known source, he’s one of these guys and I asked him about it. He’s like, that stuff is so bad for humans. It’s one of the most reactive things ever.

Dave Asprey: It pushes out, um, iodine. And you need iodine for your thyroid, but you also need it for your pineal gland. The Nazis pioneered putting it in water, in prisons and concentration camps and in parts of the world where they were working to oppress people because it made people more docile. This is well established.

Dave Asprey: It is a medical drug for reducing thyroid function, so. It’s also a byproduct of smelting aluminum. So the companies that make this, oh, we have a toxic product unless we can just put it in everyone’s water and sell it for a profit, which is what they’re doing, and it makes us dumber. It’s why I don’t drink tap water without filtering it.

Dave Asprey: And it’s also why I take care of my pineal glands so that when I meditate, it works. So this is a little bit esoteric, but honestly, you can see calcification on an MRI and it’s either there or it’s not. The less calcified you are, the more free you are to meditate and have a spiritual practice that actually produces results.

Dr Pedram Shojai: The dimethyl tryptamine in the pineal gland, the internal kind of endogenous secretions that come from the, the eye that looks up. These are all things, you know in . In Daoist lore in the world I come from, it’s, it’s a big part of the, the internal biology. It’s, it’s a big part of the internal anatomy of what we do.

Dr Pedram Shojai: Now. This peptide that you’re taking, is it de calcifying it? What’s it doing to the pineal?

Dave Asprey: Um, it’ll help, it, it’ll help to activate it. Um, it’s not gonna fully decalcify it. You have to also be getting adequate iodine, uh, and selenium and not getting more fluoride, and also not getting too much calcium. Uh, so, and even this is going to really, really piss some people off. The calcification can be. Just from normal forms of calcium. It can also be the type of calcium that comes from kale and spinach and raspberries and beets and almonds, and some of these superfoods that are high in oxalic acid that drives calcification of tissues, including the pineal gland. So this is one of the many compounds I wrote about. In my most recent book in, in Superhuman, most of us who think we’re eating healthy plant-based stuff, we’re eating plants that are actually calcifying our entire body, including those parts of our brain. So limiting intake of things that drive calcification, using, using, uh, more minerals, including trace minerals, uh, which are a part of some of my other products. Um, and then using this kind of thing, it works really well. And I can say this on this show because you’ll get it. There are people, you’re probably one of them, wouldn’t surprise me. You, you can, you can kind of scan someone’s body and you can tell when some parts are overactive or not overactive. Right. Um, I have some friends who are very good at this who are medical doctors and they’ve, you know, doing it for 20 years and they just kind of know. Right. And one of ’em actually walked up to me and said, what are you doing? Your pineal gland is overactive. Like, you need to chill, whatever. It’s, you’re gonna cook yourself. When I was doing a lot of, uh, pine and they didn’t know, so I. I would say, you know, that’s a, an external observation of it. So I, uh, the normal thing is I’ll do a 10 day course of it, you know, once every few months now, but I was doing it pretty much for a couple months straight,

Dave Asprey: maybe over overdid it. I was able to actually raise spaceships out of the swamp.

Dr Pedram Shojai: Oh, good.

Dave Asprey: was, that was Star Wars. I’m sorry. I’m sorry.

Dr Pedram Shojai: I

Dave Asprey: These are.

Dr Pedram Shojai: That’s it. That’s it. That was LSD. But different, different topic. You, you know, the thing about building these capacities, it’s not even on most people’s radar. Most people are like looking at their A1C trying not to die, and they’re in this secure model, which is just, you know, not sick.

Dr Pedram Shojai: Meat equals healthy. . And you’re one of these guys who’s been on the bleeding edge and you know, I’ve seen you take punches. I’ve seen you really, you know, out there, um, at the forefront of a lot of shit. Um, talking.

Dave Asprey: Idea

Dr Pedram Shojai: People have, people have no idea.

Dave Asprey: Joe, that’ll teach lessons about, about human nature. Yeah.

Dr Pedram Shojai: Well, and look, you, you’ve had, yeah, you’ve had your, you’ve had your battles. You, uh, don’t pull your punches, which I appreciate. Right? You’re, you’re a guy who’s, you know, you’re, you’re standing by your convictions and, um, you’re also using your body as a lap. I. Um, and a lot of the people around you, you look great by the way.

Dr Pedram Shojai: You look like you’ve lost weight. You look like you’re, you, you’re reversing aging. Like I see a lot of people and you know, the, the proof’s in the pudding and, you know, it’s, it’s been a minute. You look great.

Dave Asprey: Thank you. It, it’s, it’s funny, I just interviewed Brian Johnson. Who’s getting a lot of potential on social media right now, um, for his longevity stuff. And we’re so aligned on the practices.

Dave Asprey: If you read superhuman, uh, there’s a long list of supplements that that work, but they take a little bit of time. So I, I was already about nine years, um, nine years younger than my, my current biological age or my current chronological age.

Dave Asprey: And so we’re having this weird thing amongst those of us who are practicing longevity. The calendar says I’m 51, but my lab tests say I’m 39. Right? So which one is real?

Dave Asprey: Like the one I can measure? Seems real to me. And this means that when I fill out a form and it says, you know, how old are you? Like if, if they force me to say that I’m 51, which is not my true identity. Uh, it, it’s very triggering and, and I feel like it’s actually an act of violence. I mean, would, would you agree with me that that’s an act of violence towards my soul

Dr Pedram Shojai: You know, if you gotta get dragged outta one more DMV, it’s gonna be, it’s get ugly.

Dave Asprey: But, but it, it really does. Um, it really does bring some questions to mind because if you have the energy and even like the biology and the drive of someone who’s younger than you are, but you have some extra wisdom because you’ve taken a few hits and learned from them, um. It, it can be a little bit unmooring. So, uh, like I’m in this group for entrepreneurs called YPO, or least I was Young President’s organization. You have to run a sizable company and like, it’s, it’s a big deal to be in it, but when you turn 50, they make you join YPO Gold, which is for old people. And I’m like, I’m serious. And, and I’m like, so wait, you guys are telling me that I have to transfer over to this?

Dave Asprey: Like, for people who are like in their legacy, I’m like, I’m not, I’m not there yet. Like, gimme another 50 years or something. Maybe I’ll, I’m ready. But, so I just, I resigned from the organization because I’m just like, sorry guys. This’s not my thing. Like, I want to be around people who are like me and I’m sorry, but I am not like the average person my age and I have tons of friends who are my age.

Dave Asprey: I, I’m not, in fact, I, I curate friends 20 and 30 years older than me. ’cause those are the ones I learned

Dave Asprey: from. But I don’t want to be categorized based on my calendar age because I don’t believe in it anymore.

Dave Asprey: And. That can be radical, but it’s real. I’m gonna live to at least 180 and. It’s necessary to spend time with people way younger than me and way older than me in order to stay, you know, functional. So this is what happens when you, when you do the longevity thing. I’ve also just done gene therapy, uh, which is a, a big deal. This is a, a very advanced treatment, whereas a single injection that turns on. Genetic expression. The average person in studies who do, who does this, takes nine years off their biological age.

Dave Asprey: And the best reported results was a 30 year drop in someone’s age. So from a single injection, this wasn’t available. I, I, I hypothesized it when I wrote Superhuman, but I couldn’t buy it. Now you can buy it. In fact, who made it? Um, read, superhuman, graduated from medical school and says, let’s do this. And he did it right.

Dave Asprey: And it’s, I did a whole podcast on that. It’s on the Human upgrade, uh, which is my show. Just search human upgrade, Dave Asper, gene Therapy. You’ll find it. And what’s going on there is we’re to the point now where you can do what I did last year. Last year I aged one year on the calendar and I took two years off on my lab tests. I literally got a year younger over the last year, and for most of us were saying in five years we’ll get there. Those of us who are on it now, we’re already getting to the point where you can hold the line

Dr Pedram Shojai: When, when you say your lab test, do you mean true age? Like what, what, what are you measuring?

Dave Asprey: It turns out there’s about a dozen ways to measure your age. And you know, one of them the most reliable is a grip strength

Dr Pedram Shojai: totally.

Dave Asprey: And yeah, I mean, it’s like, how,

Dave Asprey: how, how tightly can you squeeze?

Dave Asprey: It’s very well correlated with age. It, that one says I’m 18 by the way, and I don’t train my grip. I’m just strong. Um. So that’s one. But true age, which is a test of DNA. Methylation is the most advanced and most trusted, and that’s the what I’m talking about. There’s also your brain reaction time as you age. You normally, there’s about a third of a second between when you know you stop my fingers and when your brain gets a signal that my finger snapped, you can’t see the gap. But someone who does an advanced meditation practice, probably you, if we measured your brain or me. I still have an 18-year-old response time, uh, which is a little bit under a quarter second. So what that means is that if the lights blinked, you’re gonna see it and I’m gonna see it. And the average person won’t see it because they have a lag time where it they could turn off and turn on within that 350 millisecond window. So. That’s another way of measuring it is brain age, like brain response time and there’s a whole bunch of other things. And on all of ’em, I’m way younger than I’m supposed to be, and I used to be 300 pounds. I used to have arthritis and chronic fatigue syndrome and like all the bad stuff you can imagine. I. If I can do this now, and I mean, I’m, I, look, I look like a model. It’s ridiculous as a fat computer hacker, you know, the guy from the first Jurassic Park, but, but a good guy, not the bad computer hacker. Like that was me. And like, I’ve never, like, I’m just, I have like veins everywhere and I’m just, I’m stupidly ripped and I’m not trying, I work out 20 minutes a week based on the new AI stuff. Uh, in my latest book, and I’m not trying to get anyone to read the books or read ’em. If you want the knowledge, don’t read ’em. It won’t change my life anyway, but the, this is real, it, it’s not an imagination. And my company Upgrade labs, it’s a franchise. We have 27 locations that are opening right now. And we’re using ai. We’re getting your data, we’re telling you what to do to get younger, to get stronger, to get faster. And we’re doing it in tiny amounts of time compared to what people think it takes. So you get more energy, you get more time. live longer, like the downside’s pretty small. Now the downside of doing a spin class five days a week is pretty high. You know, someone yells at you and you sweat a lot, but you don’t get much benefit. But we, we can destroy that like 12 times. Better results in five minutes.

Dr Pedram Shojai: Okay, so there’s a lot here. I wanna unpack one, one thing is a, a, a paradigm shifting statement that you made just in passing. And I don’t think, you know, I think there’s a. Of people that, that are just not up on this yet, which is the reversal of age and what that implies in treating age as almost a diagnosable illness and how the thinking has shifted.

Dr Pedram Shojai: Um, ’cause if you believe you’re gonna die, you believe you’re getting old. You’re right. And if you decide not to, and you decide to really get after biological age and do the things that you’re, you’re talking about, we see . Drastic reductions, um, morbidity, mortality, chronic disease, and all this. So I’d love for you to speak to that real quick because that builds on the thesis of all the stuff that you’re doing.

Dave Asprey: I don’t believe age is an illness and there are people who think it is, it is exceptionally dangerous to say that age is an illness. The reason is that if it’s an illness, there is a group of business interests who claim the right to tell you how you are allowed to treat an illness. Uh, those people can pound sand.

Dave Asprey: They do not have that right. They have stolen it. Uh, but right now, if you say it’s an illness, they will literally regulate your ability to keep yourself young.

Dr Pedram Shojai: They also came from Nazi Germany. Um,

Dave Asprey: uh, you’re right. It is the same roots.

Dave Asprey: So, um, it is, this is why people are coming after peptides because they work,

Dave Asprey: they don’t come after things that, that don’t work.

Dave Asprey: They encourage them because you, you make more money like Diet Coke. Best product ever. You tell people, it makes them thin so they’ll drink it, but it makes them fat so they’ll drink it for the rest of their lives. Oh, and make it addictive too.

Dave Asprey: There you go. You know, we, everybody wins except for the people who drink it, right? So this is going on in in the field of medicine. Doctors are not evil. Doctors are actually for the largest, the largest part. Um, they’re trying to be healers. They’re trying to make the world a better place. They wanna help and they’re stuck in the same system that we are. Uh, and this is why, you know, you want to be kind and supportive with doctors and find ones to partner with, um, who are going to, to see the world as, oh, it’s my job to make you absurdly healthy. And that’s, that’s the first part of it. So, aging isn’t an illness, but it is optional, just like this. You have a car, you buy a car and you say, well I’m just gonna drive the car until it breaks. ’cause cars always break at 30,000 miles. It’s just how it is. And you know, you just get a new car then. And then you get the one guy who’s like, I’m gonna change the oil. And he gets 40,000 miles and you get the other guy’s, I’m gonna change the oil and the transmission fluid. If you still have a transmission in your car and eventually you come up with a maintenance list, go. That’s weird if you do this. You replace the parts as they were out, you could probably drive that for half a million miles if you were motivated.

Dave Asprey: And there are people who do it all the time. Like there’s Volvos with a million miles on ’em. The cars aren’t that good, just someone took the time to do the work to continue maintaining it. Your body is the same way. So in Superhuman and the stuff we’re doing at Upgrade Labs, we uh. We take this idea that there’s four things you have to do to not die.

Dave Asprey: ’cause that’s the first step to living a long time. What’s gonna kill you if you are average cancer, cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer’s, and the thing that’s the trigger for all three of those diabetes, metabolic dysfunction. So you address those first. And once you’ve reduced your risk of dying from the obvious things, then you might want to add in another thing, which is politically incorrect. Drive a heavy car. Because physics,

Dave Asprey: if you’re gonna run into a Prius, you want to be in the F-150, not in some sort of microcar, sorry. That’s just how the world works. I didn’t invent physics, um, but I can read actuarial tables,

Dave Asprey: So, uh, from there, well, what’s the maintenance schedule? We used to think, well, there must be one cause of aging. There isn’t one cause of aging. Just like there isn’t one cause of walking. There isn’t one cause of bread. Like if, if you were a modern doctor, uh, and thinking and taking that kind of thinking that there must be one cause you would say, well, I’m gonna test for the presence of bread. I’m gonna bake the water.

Dave Asprey: I’m gonna bake the yeast, I’m gonna bake the flour and conclude there is no bread. Or you could do systems biology like we do in the world of biohacking and say, well, what’s the right combination in the right order with the right temperature at the right time? And magically you have crusty sourdough and it’s delicious. So. We know the seven pillars of aging and these are all in superhuman, my book. And then how do we address each of those? There’s supplements, there’s stuff that crazy billionaires are doing, and I make it a business. Go try those things and write about them like the gene therapy I just did. Um, and then there’s lifestyle things that are reasonable, either free or reasonably affordable, you know, uh, 50 bucks or something that actually activate those things.

Dave Asprey: This morning I took a lytic herbal formula that gets rid of zombie cells in the body, which is one of the seven pillars of aging, right? So I do that about every month or so. I, it’s a, a set of supplements. You take ’em for only two days and then that flips a switch, tells the body, get rid of all the weak cells, turn on the, the strong ones, and then you’re good to go. So. Each of these things has its own, uh, its own maintenance schedule, but you can do it. It’s work. It’s getting easier and easier. And if you go to own and upgrade, you can open a biohacking facility that measures your metabolic function electrically without it having to be a medical facility. And then we do all the advanced tech like pulsed electromagnets and lasers and LED lights and all kinds of stuff. That aren’t on the menu, but keep you younger and make you stronger and faster, will even do neurofeedback and make you smarter.

Dr Pedram Shojai: you, um, mentioned ai. Have you developed your own AI algo to look at complex labs and like the, you know, all the data inputs and then come up with a, a personalized algorithm for individuals? Like, how does this work?

Dave Asprey: We do have our own ai, and our AI is recommending based on where you are today, based on your goals. ’cause different people have different goals. Some people it’s longevity, some people they wanna be smarter. Some people want to be stronger. Some people wanna be, uh, bit more energetic, they wanna lose weight.

Dave Asprey: So you have to pick a goal and we help you do that. And then we chart a course using AI through the different technology interventions. So instead of going to the gym, like, give me an hour, you’re gonna get hours and hours and hours of gym without sweating. And you’re gonna feel better instead of feel worse when you’re done. So. That’s how we’re doing it. I’m not looking today at all of the medical labs, in part because in the US anyway, um, there are issues with HIPAA

Dave Asprey: where certain legal entities believe that they have a right to tell you what you get to do with your medical data and who gets to look at it. So there’s, there’s ways to, uh, to work, um, to work with those regulations in order to do that well. But end of the day, you should have a doctor. I don’t have any interest in replacing your doctor. I have a very strong interest in telling you what to do. That’s not medical. That means you probably won’t have to go to the doctor, but you still want to, ’cause your doctor’s gonna be your partner and living forever, but you just won’t go there ’cause you’re sick because your metabolism’s actually working and your body can repair itself. So you go to the doctor because you want to do better, not because you can’t go to work today.

Dr Pedram Shojai: Right. Or, or Yeah. He’s gonna patch you up ’cause something broke. Yep. And that, and I mean, that is the secure model in a nutshell. This biohacking revolution is relatively new. I mean, we’re talking dozen years. I mean, I met you what, maybe 10, 12 years ago. Um, and you were just starting to push the envelope on this stuff.

Dr Pedram Shojai: Now there’s a lot of biohackers out there. Um. You are also doing these interventions kind of on your own body. Tell me about this gene therapy. Um, what, you know, how much did it cost? What did it take? Did they, did they just take your 23 and me and CR create some sort of cocktail based on that? Like how does this work?

Dr Pedram Shojai: I.

Dave Asprey: I’m gonna give you a URL in one second. I just have to make sure. There we go. Um, you can go to dave therapy. GENE therapy. Uh, and there’s a link to, to get info about that.

Dave Asprey: And today it’s an expensive thing. It runs about $25,000.

Dr Pedram Shojai: Yep.

Dave Asprey: I’m working with a company that created it in order to get the cost down.

Dave Asprey: I’ll tell you, I don’t know anything else on earth that for that amount of money will take nine years on average off of your age. It, it’s, it’s absurd how much of a benefit that is to me. I would, you know, I would sell my car and buy an old beater and do that because those are my values. Like, by the way, you know, I drive a 10-year-old Jeep.

Dave Asprey: I don’t drive a nice car because I also have a hyperbaric chamber at home that I could have used. I could have bought a car instead of that. But no, like I. I. believe in what I believe in. By the way, my Jeep is still pretty cool but um, that’s. Um, so how does this work? What they do is they take a tiny little thing called a plasmid and bacteria make plasmids, our cells make plasmids.

Dave Asprey: And what plasmids are is a little bubble that contains a small snippet of DNA that can be absorbed into a cell. And then the DNA is an instruction to do something. Now, this is safe. It has nothing to do with vaccines or even mRNA. And what this is, is. Um, a specific short gene. The first therapy, the one that I did, um, is called Foles Statin Therapy.

Dave Asprey: And fos Statin is something that’s higher in younger people and it goes down as you age. So this is an instruction that lasts for about two years that causes my body to make a lot more Foss Statin. And after two years. The cells that have that instruction set, they wear out, they get replaced. And there is no more of that anywhere in my body. If there was a problem with it, um, there’s a, a compound you can take commonly available that turns off the genes. So it’s, it’s reversible. It is not inheritable. I wouldn’t want to, I wouldn’t recommend this and I’m not recommending it anyway. I’m not a doctor. But if I was a doctor, I would say, look, if you’re pregnant, don’t do any gene therapy.

Dave Asprey: That would be dumb. Even though it would probably be fine, I just wouldn’t wanna play around with it. So, um, what you do is you say, okay, uh, I’m gonna do this, and what’s gonna happen? Well, in the clinical trials, you know, the average, um, age reversal on a true age test was about nine years, people also lost about 1% body fat on average, and they gained substantial amounts of muscle with no change in exercise. So that’s a remarkable, remarkable difference, and we’re talking. Um, you know, it’s, it’s a one-time investment, and that’s the first of many targets. I’m collaborating with the company, uh, right now on making other targets for longevity based on the seven pillars in my book. So this is something right now, you, you leave the country, go to Mexico, you go to, uh, the Middle East, go to Dubai. Uh, or you can go to Honduras and get it done. So, you know, it’s a quick trip and, and it’s done. And I am really, really interested in making this much more accessible. So go to dave therapy and you can listen to the podcast with the doctor who’s doing the treatments. And even if you’re saying, I’m not gonna spend 25 grand, I respect that greatly, uh, over time, the cost of these things will go down. There’s no reason it needs to cost that much, except it’s a huge amount of regulatory work to, to do it and to create it and invent it. And all new technologies start absurdly expensive, including mobile phones. It’s a dollar a month in Africa, but it was $20 a minute and $40,000 in 1985. Right? So it just takes time. And I, I believe in supporting the very cutting edge of this. I’m, I’m even working now on forming a longevity venture fund to invest in these companies. Uh, the goal is. With investments we make to invest in companies that have the potential to extend a single human life by 50 years, not this dumb health span. I wanna extend my health span. That is the weasels, nastiest, most defeatist thing I’ve ever heard, and it makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit. I do not care about extending health span. We already all want that. There’s nothing new there. These are people who are afraid to say what they’re really doing. What we’re really doing is we are extending the length and quality of your life, period. People

Dave Asprey: say, I just want you to have a higher quality of life. That’s not enough. That’s not okay. That’s a cop out.

Hey, just a quick timeout to say, if you like what you’re hearing here with Dave, he was also one of the guests in the recent vitality summit. Um, also give a very provocative interview there. You can still get copies of that summit. If you go to the urban, go to the store. Uh, and you can find it in there.

The vitality summit was awesome. And if you haven’t seen it. Uh, you need to get caught up on what’s happening in this wild world of health and where you need to keep your attention. Cause there’s so many people trying to buy for it. I went to the best, said, what do people actually need to do? And no.

And keep them less distracted.

That’s exactly what we did for you. Enjoy the rest of this show. And if you haven’t seen the summit, go get it.

Dr Pedram Shojai: Yeah. Why? Why would they even say that? Why? Why wouldn’t they just say we’re an extending life?

Dave Asprey: Because this is a human nature problem. So you probably don’t even know this about me because I’m talking about it very much. Um, I have a degree in ai,

Dave Asprey: uh, and I got it,

Dr Pedram Shojai: you.

Dave Asprey: I got it in the nineties.

Dr Pedram Shojai: huh.

Dave Asprey: So in the nineties we weren’t allowed to call it ai, so we called it something called decision support systems. And the reason for that was that the promise of AI had been Had been brought out in the fifties and the sixties or the seventies and every time, like it didn’t work very well. Therefore, we’re afraid to say it

Dr Pedram Shojai: Hmm.

Dave Asprey: right? So, uh, yeah, decision support systems. But what do we study? ai

Dave Asprey: and that’s exactly what AI is.

Dave Asprey: It helps you make good decisions, so. Hmm. Are we doing the same thing with longevity? When I started running a longevity nonprofit group, uh, in the late nineties because I was old when I was young, um, I. We called it anti-aging, and any medical doctor said they were reversing aging, could lose their license. If someone like David Sinclair, who’s been on the show, uh, on my show a few times, I dunno, he might’ve been on yours too. Um, you know, he wrote a book about resveratrol and a form of b vitamin called NR or Nico Riboside or Mono Nucleotide. Um, and so look, I, I’ve, I’ve done all this work in my labs and we can reverse aging in human cells for the first time.

Dave Asprey: He took a risk with his career when he said that a, a guy saying he reverse cellular aging, he was like, how dare you. But he was at Harvard and he, he did it. Now, if you go back 20 years, have we been taking resveratrol and a precursor to that B vitamin? Yeah, those are old line anti-aging therapies. So he proved though that they worked and that you could probably enhance them some, which is great, but. He couldn’t do that until the idea of extending life was real and you couldn’t say AI 20 years ago because people would laugh at you and say you were stupid. But now look where we are. We’re at that same thing with longevity. We’re 10 years from now, it people will say, oh wow, you, you actually, you chose to age that way. Like that’s so retro.

Dave Asprey: Yeah, I’m saying 10 years. By the way, I have a track record. I also said in 1993. My Proof of Fat Picture when I was 300 pounds, it’s an entrepreneur magazine and they quoted me ’cause I’m the first guy to sell anything over the internet. It was a T-shirt that said caffeine, my drug of choice. And I didn’t e-Commerce didn’t have a name yet. And I said, and within five years we’ll never have to send a piece of junk mail again. ’cause we’ll just be able to email.

Dave Asprey: Like I, I might’ve been wrong. We’re still sydnee in junk mail, right? Um, but what, and spam did get invented, but I have not never been a spammer.

Dave Asprey: Sorry about that guys. If I might’ve dropped a hint on that. So the idea here is my timelines may be off, maybe 10 years is wrong, maybe it’s 20 years. But I’m telling you, in our lifetime, Pedra, yours and mine, and especially people younger than us, there are going to be a class of people who don’t age the way we’ve always expected. And the question is, are we gonna make this successful for everyone or are we gonna keep this only for a small number of people? Now, here’s the arguments for that. Some people would say, well, there’s a population problem. Now I’m just gonna say, these are people who are bad at math. Okay. My, my very first book was on fertility, and I studied fertility for five years because my mother of my children, uh, was infertile and we needed to make her fertile again.

Dave Asprey: We, and we did it. We had kids at 39 and 42 with no, uh, no, IVF, no medical interventions just by Changing the environment. The book is called The Better Baby Book, by the way. So you go back and you say, what does this have to do with longevity? Well, in every Western Nation, the replacement rate is lower or is higher than the birth rate.

Dave Asprey: In other words, Japan already has cities that are empty

Dave Asprey: because there’s no young people to live there. Right. Well, the US is the same way. All of Europe is the same way. Parts of Central and South America. A few parts of Africa and few parts of the Middle East aren’t doing this otherwise. Sorry guys. We are facing the end of civilization in about 25 to 40 years because there simply aren’t enough young people.

Dave Asprey: We’re gonna have a bunch of old boomers and some old Gen Xers, the ones who aren’t doing longevity and basically empty cities because there just aren’t enough people with kids.

Dr Pedram Shojai: And no one to bring you pizza.

Dave Asprey: Uh, it’s gonna be an issue. And who knows, maybe we’ll have our electronic servants, right? I don’t really like that idea of a world and, you know, I can maybe have a, a rubber girlfriend, like, what, what are we gonna do?

Dave Asprey: This is wrong. So our only choice right now is our, our job is to make ourselves young again so we can fix a lot of the problems we created. I. It’s the only choice that you can check out and decide to just, you know, spend your last 20 years in

Dave Asprey: diapers with tubes and monitors not remembering your name.

Dr Pedram Shojai: Just play golf.

Dave Asprey: I’m not, I’m not going down that path

Dave Asprey: and I don’t think anyone listening is, is gonna wanna do that either. It’s up to us right now. We, we can do it. That’s why I started upgrade labs. That’s why I do all of my companies Danger Coffee, 40 years of, of Zen, all those things. It’s about what are the materials we need in order to have a thriving biology. So that we can make intelligent choices, uh, for ourselves, for the planet, for the future. And no, don’t worry about clogging up the earth. We’re emptying the earth very rapidly right now.

Dr Pedram Shojai: And we’re doing a great job at it. Um, it is, and it’s not. I mean, some people are choosing to not have children, but the infertility rates, some people are trying to have children is also just plummeting. It was one in eight, going to one in four. Uh.

Dave Asprey: Oh yeah. I think it’s by design. Which is kind of a dark, a dark view on things. I’m, I’m not one of those guys who says, I know it was, you know, MK Ultra met the CIA and they had illegitimate child with Russia and Biden and whatever the, I don’t know. All I can tell you is that if I was to carefully design a program to remove fertility from the human race, I would do exactly what we’re doing with our food supply, especially in the us. It’s like someone hates humans and they’re doing everything they can to make it hard to thrive. Um, I, I, so I can say, I dunno anything else about who, what, where,

Dr Pedram Shojai: Including killing their pineal gland so they can’t even be happy while they’re dying.

Dave Asprey: yeah. It’s, it’s almost like human suffering is, you know, a fuel source for some kind of evil, uh, evil trolls out there.

Dr Pedram Shojai: Do you know the, uh, the gnostics, the ancient gnostics actually had a word for it called the Aons. It’s a, a trans dimensional, disembodied life form that parasitically lives off of human life energy, and this is three, 4,000 years ago, like pre biblical times, they, they talked about this.

Dave Asprey: They talked about it. All the shamanic lineages know about these guys and you and I have both done, you know, esoteric training and things like that. And um, yeah, it’s part of, a, part of reality is

Dave Asprey: it’s like a lot of people hearing that might say, and this is such nonsense, how dare you, I, I have a challenge for you. Um, buy a rate detector, it’ll cost you a hundred bucks on Amazon, put it in your car and set it on its most sensitive setting and drive around. All day long, it’s gonna go beep, beep, boop, boop, boop, and suddenly you realize, wait a minute, I’m spending all day driving through these invisible fields that are provably there. I just have no evidence they’re there unless I have a detector.

Dave Asprey: So if that is possible, and you damn well know it is there’s, an entire map of reality that you can’t see, and that map would look very different than what you and I see. If you could see wifi antennas, the world would be completely different. And if you could see radioactive developments, it’d be different. And there are, there are life forms that can see those things. So all I’m saying is there’s stuff we don’t know about widely that some people believe, some people don’t believe. Um, it’s, it’s very interesting. And, uh, maybe those things are in charge, maybe they’re not.

Dave Asprey: But like I said, it’s not my job to know who’s doing it. It’s my job to say I have made myself and my tribe so resilient. We gave ourselves the upgrade. There’s a reason I. uh, and we give ourselves the upgrade so that we saw what, whatever those things are, are doing, uh, and we laugh in their general direction and we continue doing the good work.

Dave Asprey: That’s the only choice that’s left.

Dave Asprey: Just be un programmable. And that’s why actually it’s called Danger Coffee because who knows what you might do You might do the hard thing that felt risky. You might, you know, ask that person out. You might start a company, you might say, no, the next time someone tries to lock you and your family in your house and turn it into a prison for three years without your consent or without even any science backing them up.

Dave Asprey: Of course, I’m not talking about any specific circumstances right now. I mean, if, if, if you, as you’re listening, something came into mind, how dare you?

Dave Asprey: How dare you think? Such a thought, right? But we all know.

Dr Pedram Shojai: You’ve been, um, holding that line for a long time, right? And you’ve taken a lot of flack for it, and you’re still standing and you’re still doing it, man, and I, I have a lot of respect for that. I have a lot of respect for that. And, and, and this is what happens, um, for, with people I know who step up to build their resilience.

Dr Pedram Shojai: Their minds start to come back to themselves. And when you are free of the tentacles that are pulling you around in the attention economy, telling you who to be, how to think, how to vote, and you start suddenly start thinking for yourself, yeah, you are dangerous.

Dave Asprey: You are, and some of my opinions just aren’t, aren’t that popular.

Dave Asprey: Uh, in fact some of them really are confronting, and I’ll, I’ll tell you this, um, if voting changed anything, they’d make it illegal.

Dr Pedram Shojai: Yeah. Yeah.

Dave Asprey: So. this mean you shouldn’t vote? I don’t know. Does this mean that the illusion of control might be more toxic than just admitting that you’re not in charge of that and then doing the right thing anyway? That’s something that that’s worth considering. Right. And you know, I’m actually going to have, uh, one of the, the major, in fact the only, uh, medical freedom candidate I can think of on, on my show who’s done, you know, Enormous amounts of beautiful work in the world on just ensuring our right to a, a clean environment and our right to clean food, right?

Dave Asprey: So I’m not apolitical, but I’m not gonna pretend like if I spend 200 hours and I lose sleep over some election or another, it has exactly as much impact on my life as rooting for a football team, which I also don’t do. It just, it doesn’t change things, but I can, and you can, and that’s the most important thing.

Dave Asprey: And the change doesn’t start with you protesting or telling other people what to do. It starts with you becoming resilient, you changing things, and you being the only one in the room who’s grounded and stable, even if everyone else is losing their mind

Dr Pedram Shojai: Yeah.

Dave Asprey: and

Dr Pedram Shojai: Especially since everyone in the room is losing their minds.

Dave Asprey: They may be, but you, what you’re gonna

Dave Asprey: find, there’s always a few other people who are like, thank God. And this is what I heard over and over the number of dms I got in the middle of, you know, the last three years, uh, where I, I just said, look, it’s your right to, it’s your right to get it or not get it. I, it’s up to you, but it is no one’s right to make you do something. And that non, you know, non-polar response. I got thousands of people who

Dave Asprey: said, thanks, .Like

Dave Asprey: someone had to say I was afraid to.

Dave Asprey: So if you’re the one person who, who’s not standing up to authority, but the one who’s just being real, right? That’s what causes change in the world. So that’s what it’s on us to do, and that’s why I. Everything I am about right now is about giving you the fuel, the raw materials, to just show it better in your own world because I believe it creates ripple effects and no, you know, some, some powers that be probably don’t like that, but that’s okay.

Dave Asprey: I didn’t ask them to like it. And this is

Dave Asprey: my world. This is our world. It’s not their world.

Dave Asprey: And uh, that’s how it’s.

Dr Pedram Shojai: we also have a, a very iconic Statue of Liberty. Standing in front of, you know, the, the biggest, biggest metropolitan, you know, city in America and liberty is, is a foundational concept here, right? And so I’m at liberty to take control of my mind. I’m at liberty to take control of my health. And so a lot of what you’ve been doing in your career, um, and we look, we’ve been friends for a good 10, 10, 12 years.

Dr Pedram Shojai: I’ve been watching you. And you know, I hear, you know, I hear the inside baseball is. Allowing folks to wake up to the, the challenges of the ideation of the medical system, telling you what health is telling you, what lack of dis lack of disease symptoms look like and what to do. As soon as you fall into the trap and the people doing the biohacking, I don’t see them getting sick.

Dr Pedram Shojai: Right. I don’t see them. You know what I.

Dave Asprey: I’ll be really clear. I, I got, I, I got the virus thing twice. Okay. Uh, and both times it sucked. Right. And I bounced back. Right. And I was okay and I knew how to handle it. And I wasn’t afraid. I just felt like crap for 10 days, which isn’t that part of the human experience for all of recorded history. Yeah.

Dr Pedram Shojai: Yeah. Yeah.

Dave Asprey: So

Dr Pedram Shojai: getting sick and, and, and learning from it, right? And that’s what your immune system’s supposed to do is to learn.

Dave Asprey: And, and that’s not to say that some people didn’t get sick and pass away. It looks like the same number of people did that. During that last, that three years as did before, that three years, they just had different labels on what they, you know, what they did.

Dave Asprey: And since that time, it’s been pretty, it’s been pretty gnarly and there’s all kinds of people talking about all kinds of stuff. Um, again, not my job to be an expert in everything or claim I am. All I, all I know is that no one has the right. To force you to do something against your will, uh, that, that violates your bodily autonomy. This is well codified in our law, in our legal system, uh, and the fact that a few people got a little over adventurous and a few bullies try to make people do stuff.

Dave Asprey: These are things that as a biohacker, if I’m gonna live forever, you don’t get to tell me what to do, and I don’t get to tell you what to do. ’cause if you can tell me what to do and you’re gonna stop me from living forever, I’m gonna tell you to step into the wood chipper.

Dr Pedram Shojai: Mm-Hmm.

Dave Asprey: I’m pretty sure you’re not gonna do it, therefore I’m not gonna do it.

Dave Asprey: So what we could do is we could agree that each of us will walk our own path through life with the blessings of the other person, and that that is the only way that we can have a society that functions. So that’s what I believe, and I’m going to stand up for that, but I’m not gonna stand up in the way that people, you know, put on a banner and interrupt the play or some sort of complainy victim nonsense. I am just gonna do the right thing, and I’m gonna lead by example, and I’m gonna ask you to do the same thing. And it’s not about being angry, it’s not about fighting back, it’s none of that energy. It’s just about this is what’s right, so I’m gonna do what’s right.

Dr Pedram Shojai: Yeah. And coming to life is an inalienable, right, that we’ve been deprived of from the, you know, the pfas, the, the . Um, all the, the scented candles, all the bullshit that’s made it inside the, the, the city walls, right? They’re al already in the house, outgassing and making you sick. Um, toxic mold, which we didn’t even have time to talk about, you did a whole film on mold, um, EMFs, um, all, all the stuff that we’re exposed to on a daily basis that are death by a thousand cuts.

Dr Pedram Shojai: And if you don’t have a, a proactive approach to bringing all that shit down. Then bringing up your vitality and your resilience and upgrading your system. You’re just, you’re just waiting to get sick and die. Right. And so for, for me, what you’re talking about is a, is a dramatic shift in paradigm that I think people need to hear.

Dr Pedram Shojai: And it’s a very different way of operating in a human body. And so I just want to kind of put a, put a punctuation on that point, because it’s where you’ve been standing for a while, but I don’t think people are, people are so stuck in a paradigm. They don’t see that you’re talking about a different paradigm.

Dave Asprey: It, it is a different world. It, it’s one where you are in charge of how you feel. You’re in charge of how much energy you have, and if you get fat the way I was, you have so little energy. You can’t regulate your emotions the way I have been. It’s always your fault. Right. You might not have been the one who sprayed crap, you know, flame retardant crap that broke your thyroid around. But it, it was possible for you with the right knowledge to counteract it or avoid it and you didn’t do it. And that’s okay. ’cause you didn’t know. Right? But it’s still your fault because with fault comes responsibility and comes ability to change. And so everything bad that happens to me is my fault, right? The fact is, I did the best I could with what I had. It still happened. What am I gonna do now versus turning on the victim card? And what’s weird is the psychology studies pedrum today, they show that if you see yourself as a victim, you are statistically way, way more likely. To believe that you can tell other people what to do and to call for more harsh punishment of people who don’t do what you want. So when you decide to be a victim, you basically become an oppressor. And if I can just be really blunt, fuck that.

Dr Pedram Shojai: Fuck that. Fuck that. I mean, that’s the world we live in, right?

Dave Asprey: Yeah.

Dr Pedram Shojai: Bull bullies and sick people who don’t feel well and look, hurt people, hurt people. And so if you’re not committed to healing and growing, you are potentially part of the problem because you’re also spreading shit wherever you go.

Dave Asprey: Well said.

Dr Pedram Shojai: You know, Dave,

Dr Pedram Shojai: um.

Dave Asprey: know, I know you’ve got an episode coming up here, another one to record, and I’ve got.

Dr Pedram Shojai: If I don’t have an upgrade lab in my town, I could stroke a check and buy one as a franchise. If, if, if I have means. And if I don’t have means, how do I get, I get your books, how do I get more informed? How do I get on this train?

Dave Asprey: I would check out the Human upgrade on my podcast, two episodes a week, 1200 episodes and counting 400 million downloads. That’s the human upgrade. Go to dave and I’m gonna point out danger It’s my new coffee brand. I. It’s got trace minerals that help your body to handle toxins better and remineralize your body that’s been stripped of minerals by some of the stuff that bad parties are doing.

Dave Asprey: So danger, dave, and the humid upgrade.

Dr Pedram Shojai: Love it. It is certainly good to see you and catch up with you, my old friend. Uh, keep up the good work, man. I’m, I’m always happy to see that you’re still rocking it.

Dave Asprey: likewise, my friend. Talk soon.

That’s it hope you enjoyed it. Give us a, like, give us a follow. I will see you in the next podcast.

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Dr. Pedram Shojai

NY Times Best Selling author and film maker. Taoist Abbot and Qigong master. Husband and dad. I’m here to help you find your way and be healthy and happy. I don’t want to be your guru…just someone who’ll help point the way. If you’re looking for a real person who’s done the work, I’m your guy. I can light the path and walk along it with you but can’t walk for you.