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Elizabeth Bast and Chor Boogie are a couple that have navigated some choppy waters. Chor Boogie was a drug addict that was clean for over a decade. But then despite such a great run of being clean, he relapses. Unfortunately, 90% of narcotics addicts relapse in their first year of being clean. Elizabeth and Chor wanted to break this addiction once and for all and weren’t finding any permanent solutions through the traditional medical system so they looked elsewhere. Their attentions were turned towards an obscure sacred plant from Central West Africa named iboga. What is iboga? How did the ancient people of Africa use it? Is there any research that has been done on this plant? How is it different from other sacred medicinal herbs like ayahuasca, peyote, or psilocybin mushrooms? How lasting are the effects?
– Welcome back to the Urban Monk, Doctor Pedram Shojai in studio with a couple new friends. Got a very interesting story for you coming, it’s a love story. And it’s been a rocky road and on one side of it was heroin addiction and some real trouble and on the other side was an amazing couple that’s sitting in front of me here and the enzyme in between happened to be a very special plant that we’re gonna talk about. So welcome Elizabeth Bast and Chor Boogie to the studio.
– Thank you, Pedram. It’s great to be here.
– Great to have you both.
– Thank you. Thank you very much.
– Yeah, so you are tattooed up with all kinds of very interesting symbolism and you’re an artist.
– Yes, I am.
– Who ran into trouble with heroin.
– Yes, yes. In my younger years, in my youth, I did some extracurricular activities known as street pharmaceuticals. I did that from say the age of 13 up to the age of 22. Jails, institutions, death and all that stuff. From there I basically decided, made a conscious decision to straighten my life out. It was either die, that was at the age of 22. And stayed clean for about a good 13 years. And during that 13 years I was building up my career, my art career. Doing things, traveling the world, making money and stuff.
– And working really hard.
– Working really hard, you know, I was making that sacrifice.
– Maybe too hard.
– [Pedram] Maybe too hard?
– Maybe too hard, definitely. And then from there, I’m getting involved in circles like, what the fuck am I doing here? Why am I here in these circles?
– Who are these people?
– These are some people that are like… I call ’em demons.
– [Pedram] They’re everywhere.
– They’re everywhere. Oh yeah. From there, but I’m not placing blame on them, ’cause I make my own choices. From there I don’t say I fucked up or messed up, I basically went back in the lesson. So when I went back in the lesson, I started off with some alcohol then casually the heroin started coming back in. And that was for about a good three to five years.
– [Pedram] You guys were together at the time?
– Yes, yes.
– [Pedram] So you’re seeing this start to happen.
– Yeah, he was sober when I met him and not only sober, but militantly sober.
– And then over the course of our relationship, alcohol was reintroduced, severe overworking, incredible hours, and it’s beautiful, because he loves what he does, he’s very passionate about it but I saw a kind of burning the candle at both ends. And then a lot of parties, a lot of…
– She definitely noticed the change.
– I definitely noticed a change, the reintroduction of cigarettes and then a few recreational drugs that I learned about later on work trips at the very end, and then finally, the heroin relapse.
– And this is, we’re six years in, he’s not disposable to me.
– You love him, you love her, and you also love heroin.
– I did, I did, yeah.
– So now what? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
– So at this point…
– He confessed to me.
– I did.
– And there was a heartful confession, and there was a 24-hour period I was just in shock. And then I started looking online, like, “What can we do, we need treatment, we need something.” And I told him, “If we’re gonna stay together, “there needs to be some treatment now.” Really powerful treatment and then looking online…
– And I was debating, too, yeah, really.
– I could feel there were moments you could’ve slipped away, it was very close and very messy sometimes. So I started researching online and found out that 90% of serious opiate addicts relapse in the first year in our current models of treatment. And I was devastated, and I’m sure a lot of those people too are dealing with a pharmaceutical drug replacement therapy and even methadone or suboxone, which are more toxic than heroin.
– Had you tried those on your first go round?
– Like what, suboxone and…
– Methadone, all those.
– I tried some methadone when I was younger, I’ve done that, just a little bit, but I was like, nah. It’s not for me, I’d rather do heroin. Yeah, yeah.
– [Pedram] Sure.
– That’s how it was.
– Okay, so obviously the conventional treatment model sucks, what’d you find?
– So I went into nature. And I took a walk. I just wanted to clear my head, this was that first day. I had had some experience with other medicines, so I was aware of plant medicines and aware of how powerful they could be as healing agents. And walking in nature, I don’t know how I remembered iboga, it almost felt like iboga was remembering me. So it was lodged in there in my consciousness, bubbling to the surface. And for the life of me, in that moment, I’m like, how do I know that iboga is good for addiction? And in retrospect, it was probably a Daniel Pinchback book that I had read many, many years before, but I was unaware of where it was. And so that was unique of a remembering experience.
– [Pedram] So what’s iboga?
– So iboga is a sacred visionary plant medicine that is used by the indigenous people of central west Africa and primarily the Bwiti. The Bwiti tradition which is a study of life and they don’t use it to treat addiction, traditionally, they use it to heal all kinds of things, but primarily it’s used for initiation for young people coming into adulthood to face the challenges that they do in tribal life, in nature, and it’s to wake up.
– Yeah, it’s one of the foundations of the Bwiti culture, for sure.
– [Pedram] Extremely psychoactive.
– Extremely psychoactive, it’s an extremely powerful medicine.
– They say it’s reality. They’ll claim it’s reality versus calling it a psychoactive or a psychodellic.
– [Pedram] Sure, so you’re coming home.
– You’re coming home.
– You’re waking up.
– Well said, well said.
– Definitely, you’re comin’ home, it’s true.
– And sometimes coming home hurts.
– Yeah, it’s like, Mogenda, the shaman that we worked with, says, “The truth hurts, but it sets you free.” We’ve all heard that and it’s so true.
– So there’s a shaman in Africa who’s administering this. How did you connect the dots? So there’s a thing called iboga, you live in the United States, it’s not legal here.
– Not at all.
– No, it’s a schedule 1 substance.
– Which is crazy.
– So I ran home.
– ‘Cause it works.
– Oh, I’ve never seen anything like it in all of my life. So before I told him about it, I went home to do research. And then when I did research, I found so many different things. Everything from it’s a magic bullet, which is reducing it, it’s way oversimplifying it. There’s many factors that help to hold the medicine in a good way, so everything from it’s a magic bullet to it’s a complete gamble, deadly, crapshoot.
– [Pedram] That people don’t come back.
– Yeah, I’ve heard these statistics, like 1 in 800 dies and so on and so forth, but we’re learning things all the time that the medicine isn’t inherently deadly, there does need to be a medical screening, there are some contraindicated medical conditions, and definitely contraindicated pharmaceutical drugs that someone would need to safely wean off before they approach the medicine. So not everyone is a candidate, but with good screening, we’re learning how to make it more safe.
– What is it, what is it exactly?
– [Chor] It’s a root.
– It’s a root?
– Yeah, it’s a root bark.
– It’s a root bark, yeah, but you shave it straight off the root from a plant in Africa that grows a little orange fruit on it. They’re kind of claiming that it’s the Tree of Life.
– The Fruit of Knowledge.
– The Fruit of Knowledge.
– [Pedram] That’s what the local tribe calls it?
– Yeah, yeah.
– Yeah, that’s how they regard it.
– In relation to what people think, what’s in the Bible.
– I think there’s many sacred substances that could be that and for me that’s definitely what it was for me.
– [Pedram] Is it considered a entheogen? Is it in that class?
– Absolutely, yeah, it’s like, ayahuasca is a master plant, it’s a very powerful entheogen. And I like that word a lot. Some say iboga, in ceremonial doses, is even more powerful and rigorous, and that was my experience. It all depends on the dose and the situation and the context, but it was the longest experience at least between 24 and 48 hours.
– Good two or three days.
– That is a long time. Did you feel like you were dying?
– In a good way.
– I felt many things.
– Many, many, many…
– Took 400 pages to…
– Levels, many dimensions.
– This is the full download?
– That’s the full download.
– That’s an aspect of it, yeah. Definitely.
– What I hear about iboga is that it is like a father not a mother drug, like it’s got a masculine energy and it’s kind of got a back hand, where as ayahuasca, even psilocybin, some of the earth-mom-energy drugs are still embracing. Like you feel like you’re held. Iboga will kind of kick your ass in a little?
– Yeah, and so can aya, aya can do that as well.
– It’ll teach you a lesson, definitely, for sure.
– [Pedram] Well mom and dad do it differently, right?
– Yeah, yeah.
– My wife cuddles my kids when they’re being horrible, and I’m just like…
– Well that’s how, through our human lenses, that’s how we can interpret the energies of these plants which are beyond gender, but I would say so from my human lens, it was much more masculine, but the Buiti people actually say that it is a dual spirit in one plant, because it can be both stern, very stern, but beautifully stern. It’s the real magic mirror of looking into your own soul and your own truth and very loving. And kind and wonderful and opulent and beautiful, but my first journey was so rigorous. I almost didn’t wanna do the medicine again. We had two journeys planned for our first eight day retreat, with the African shaman in Costa Rica and I had purged more than I ever had in my life.
– You would’ve thought she was detoxing off drugs, versus me.
– And I was, because I could feel that I was detoxing from all of the biochemicals that are produced from habitual negative, fearful thought patterns. I could feel it being sucked right out of my body and I was doing a lot of that, I realized.
– Did you feel that that was what was happening during?
– Absolutely, I could feel that was what was happening during and it had the same effect on my brain, I felt like my brain was purging. That it was excavating my whole conscious, semiconscious, and subconscious mind. To bring up every fear and attachment to the surface to face and release.
– And so in that moment, because this is where people feel like they’re dying, and they’re not dying, they’re just facing stuff that’s uncomfortable, how does one, I mean, is it a conscious process? Just like, okay, this shit is coming up, now I gotta deal with it? And unless you deal with it, it stays there? Stays kind of in front of you until you’re clear, or what?
– Actually just, it’s a point of facing all those fears. You know what I mean? And once you’re able to face them, you can let them go. Literally, you’re following yourself, you’re looking at yourself, face-to-face. Your spirit is coming to you, or you’re going to your spirit and you are either going to make amends or you’re not.
– [Pedram] What happens if you don’t?
– Then it’s not a good idea. I mean, it’s not gonna be good for you.
– Okay, so what does this look like? If you guys are on iboga right now and I walk into a room, are you on the floor in a puddle of vomit? Like, what’s it look like?
– Just to respond, you asked a great question. I found it to be very participatory and very interactive. Very sentient. Very conscious, it’s like Star Wars is in here.
– It is, it is.
– Star Wars isn’t out there, Star Wars is in here. Darth Vader is in here. And fun and exciting and humbling and I did see a lot of incredibly terrifying things about myself and it was beautiful to interact with that and make a decision to let it go. So what does it look like?
– Okay, so I just wanna stay on this. ‘Cause what it looks like is kind of trivial compared to where you’re at right now. Once you’ve seen that, and once you’ve faced that, on the other side of that, you remember that. It’s not like that goes away, what is your relationship with that like on the other side?
– On the other side of…
– Coming out of the medicine?
– Coming out of the medicine?
– [Pedram] No, not so much the medicine.
– You wanna hear an experience.
– [Pedram] You faced a lot of your shit, right?
– I did, oh yeah.
– To the point where you came out and said, “I don’t need heroin anymore.”
– [Chor] Of course, yeah, within 24 hours.
– Stuff he didn’t plan on facing, I think.
– Yeah, I didn’t wanna put anything bad in my body ever again after that.
– Four words. Four words the next day. So what I saw, real quick, what I saw was I could recognize him again the next day. He had been so polluted. I could recognize the man I fell in love with
– Just like a whole different person, like that demon was showing himself. When you ingest or take substances that are not supposed to be within you. They show themselves, they reveal themselves, those dark spirits. So once the iboga cleaned it out, once it did that, then it was like, I was reborn again. I’m like a new person, like whoah. Who is this guy, I’ll say that to myself, I’m jumping up with joy, I can’t believe this. I’m going, I’m grabbing, picking up the shaman. Like, thank you.
– So it’s a spiritual exorcism.
– The spirit is the 110% main factor of it.
– It’s the only medicine that really works to that level. So what are the four words?
– Thanks. In the body, these spiritual parasitical energies reside in our tissues and iboga not only taught us and showed us, but it was detoxing us in a very physical level. So four words the next day, I will never forget, that just made my heart sing. He said, “I love my life.”
– I love my life.
– And that was something that was missing before that moment and from the relapse.
– Yeah, from the relapse.
– Okay, you have these spiritual demons attached through abhorrent behavior, through substances you’ve ingested, things that have put dark marks…
– Darkness to nothing, I call ’em.
– Into your consciousness. And as you take this substance, you see yourself, you see the light, these things start to clear. They’re no longer in you, or you have outshone them, I need a visual, what’s happening?
– I had to defeat ’em, myself. So, as you learn within the book, I became a superhero called LoveMan, so I created this.
– Inside the ceremony, inside the context.
– Within myself, within my universe. I created a superhero, cape and everything. Heart-shaped friggin’ symbol, everything. And was going through, because the main objective during the fire talk was we had to do this for ourselves. That was the intention, so as long as the intention is strong, then your power will flourish. So I created a superhero, LoveMan. Went in, saw these dark forces, literally like she said, she was talking about Star Wars and everything, literally I was in there with a lightsaber fighting these dark forces, yeah.
– Did they have faces?
– Oh they did, they were just demonic, it was just dark.
– Okay, so you’re actually in a Hadean hell realm fighting your demons.
– Especially the first journey, yeah.
– It was real life.
– The second journey was different.
– There was even points where, as you can see on the cover of the book, those hearts that are comin’ out of the third eye, I was literally having that come out of my third eye and out of my heart area, being the superhero, destroying all these entities, these dark forces. And it was really dark in there, like darker than dark, and as I was cleaning house, you started getting lighter and lighter and lighter until warm, loving color and it just got rid of it. Not completely, but it got rid of almost 100% of it. I say, 110% usually, but if something happens and I lose 10%, I still add on 100, so, 100% of it was gone.
– [Pedram] How many hours?
– Doing the medicine? We did it from seven at night til seven in the morning.
– The whole thing lasts about 48 hours.
– But it does last, ’cause after that we’re getting carried up to the room and they usually say, after you sleep, the medicine is taken, it’s 110% effect, so. We’ didn’t sleep for two days and were still having visions. But not like as intense as they were in the beginning.
– [Pedram] But you’re still on the train.
– Yeah, you’re still on the train and they were clear, the visions were even getting clearer and they were getting more… It was beautiful.
– It was more meaning, layering around what’s happening now?
– It was just loving and you can do anything in these visions.
– Yeah, so there was after the aftermath, the integration is a big part of it, so when I started researching the medicine, I also learned it was also good for PTSD. So that’s what I decided to experience it for my own purposes, so it’s not that the medicine turns you into a healthy robot for the rest of your life. It completely, it has the potential, with good facilitation and quality medicine to completely detox someone, heal them, teach them about the roots of the issues, and then we’re in a neuroplastic state during ceremony so you can literally heal with the visualizations and the very beautiful Bwiti facilitation and soul journeys that they have and then afterward, the medicine gives you tools. The medicine gave me very specific tools for continuing to interact with my own mind. Now I felt the lift in the serotonin levels very strong for about six months. And I remember the moment when it left my body. And I was in dialogue with this plant spirit and it said, “Okay, I’m leaving, I’m heading out.” Well what it said was, “Now it’s time to experience “your own strength and moving forward.”
– So it’s a spirit ally that stayed with you for six months to help you through it.
– Oh, yeah.
– Yeah, six months, yeah.
– But then after that, it’s like okay, now you have to understand the strength of your own consciousness. And Mogenda says, “we can’t even be attached `to the medicine.” So it can be very helpful for people to have seasonal ceremonial experiences with entheogenic plant medicines. Maybe not everybody, but we’re built with the receptor sites, we’re hard wired for these plants. But without an attachment, we can make it without the booster dose, without continuing to take it in our lives, we need to listen to when the medicine wants to take us, too. It’s not just us being consumers.
– Yeah, I’ll help you get rooted and give you the navigational tools to work through life, after the fact, yeah.
– Wasn’t that how you got into a mess in the first place? Was not having those and making bad decisions in life?
– I remember what you said, I remember what you said.
– What did I say?
– In retrospect, you said, I stopped praying was when the issues really started to spiral.
– When he stopped praying.
– Yeah, that’s what you told me after, in retrospect, after the medicine, you realized when it started to get worse.
– Yeah, that was a part of it, yeah.
– And overworking.
– Well, there’s spiritual hygiene that we forget about.
– Yeah, yeah.
– Yeah, definitely.
– And then the days get dark.
– [Chor] You get blinded.
– Yeah, definitely.
– So what’s the shaman doing in those first 12 hours, from 7:00 PM to 7:00 AM? Is he standing over you, what is this, show me what this room looks like.
– [Elizabeth] There’s different phases, so they created a fire talk. So it’s encased within three walls, so they have to do this ceremony within three walls. The temple has to be within three walls.
– [Pedram] Is this a triangular temple?
– No, it’s square.
– It’s a square with an open…
– With an open door. You can leave, you can come in when you come in, and you can leave any time. So that’s why there’s only three walls.
– Is it a hut, like you had a thatched roof over you?
– It’s a temple.
– And we started first with the fire talk.
– Yeah, we start with the fire talk and everything.
– There’s a lot of navigational tools that come through the initial fire ceremony.
– He’s basically a psychic during the fire talk. He can read you through the fire talk and he’s like, he’s throwing out stuff that is aimed towards who you are, and he’s counseling you.
– Yeah, he’s counseling you.
– Does he know your story before you show up?
– Kind of.
– Some of it.
– No, not really.
– He hasn’t heard what you know he knows about you.
– Yeah, but he’s shooting out stuff…
– And some things he didn’t know.
– That I’m like, wow, how would he know something like that? He just knows how to read people well, he’s a shaman, he can go in and out, and in and out, and know who you are, yeah. From within.
– He was remarkable, yeah.
– So you know, fire talk and that’s for at least an hour long, and then from there, he administers the medicine and then…
– [Pedram] So is it oral?
– Yeah, they have an extraction of it.
– A natural total alkaloid extract of the medicine.
– And they do have root bark.
– Root bark, too. It can also be taken on the skin.
– Test you with the root bark, then they’ll give you some extract. And that’ll be later. Some people can just take half a teaspoon of root bark and they’re, pshew, they’re gone.
– Gone, what, eyes rolling back like asleep?
– No, no, no, no, no.
– What does gone mean?
– [Chor] You’re still functional, you’re still functional.
– So you’re in the room.
– So when you’re in those first 12 hours, ’cause I’ve been in aya ceremonies, I’ve seen stuff, right. So what do people look like in an iboga ceremony? Are your eyes open, are you communicating?
– No, actually. Laying down, there’s a bed where we lay and they give us a blindfold, which allows us to go deeper into the visions. And they allowed the medicine to start to work and then the shaman, and he was working with an amazing apprentice, Michael Dancing Eagle Cassidy was there with him, and they start to do a guided journey at a point when we’re really filled with medicine, so just a part of the night is this guided journey of meeting our higher self, or our soul.
– But you’re laying down this whole time.
– Yeah, yeah, and except when we have to go to the bathroom and we have help.
– Carry you to the bathroom and all that stuff.
– They helped us get to the bathroom. The whole evening was sentient, there was no question about what is the material world and what is the visionary world. I felt very present.
– Present in the room.
– But along with the practice, they’re like hawks, they’re watching you the whole time.
– They’re doin’ their thing on their computers or whatever, but they’re like watching you.
– I love that, computers or whatever. He’s on Facebook.
– But no, they’re watching you, they are watching you like a hawk, definitely. For sure.
– All night, yeah.
– [Pedram] Yeah, that’s a long night. We’ve got a couple questions though, from the audience. Let me just tag them in, because we’re running low on time. Yeah, go ahead.
– [Man] Yeah, so my first question is does this type of ceremony work with multiple types of addictions and not just drug addiction, or things like that?
– Food addiction, all types of stuff, yeah.
– Did they catch that?
– I think with…
– Did they hear that?
– Oh, yeah, he’s got a mic.
– Addictive personalities, I believe, or I know, that it will have an effect on it.
– Yes, it can.
– It will.
– It has the potential.
– If that’s what you bring to the table, so if you’re like, “I eat too much,” or “I’m addicted to porn,” and that’s what you wanna heal, and you ask iboga this, if that’s your intention.
– [Pedram] You lay it on the altar.
– You lay it on the altar, you ask the right questions, you’ve gotta ask the right questions.
– And a strong intention. Like a really strong intention. And again, with good facilitation and quality medicine, it’s one thing I really wanna say, is that sure, you can find iboga on the web, but we would never, ever advise for anyone to do that for a few different reasons. Iboga has to be a mature plant to treat anyone, it has to be quality medicine, even better if it’s grown in ceremony and harvested in ceremony. But then you find things on the web, medicine associated with elephant poachers, because elephants eat iboga and we don’t wanna support that. And also Doctor Deborah Mash in Florida, based out of Florida, she’s a professor there, amazing researcher for ibogaine, the active alkaloid in the medicine, is that she’s found a lot of medicine acquired online to be adulterated, straight up poisonous, fake, causing cardiotoxic effects. Please, plus, even if someone were to get good quality medicine…
– [Pedram] You need a shaman.
– This is an extremely powerful jet fuel and I cannot imagine going through it without the kind of facilitation, the skillful facilitation that we had.
– It has to be in the right container.
– [Pedram] Just to be clear, folks, if you’re in the United States, it’s illegal. So you need to go to Africa or go somewhere where it is legal, if you’re interested in such things, because it is illegal in the United States. Yeah, another question.
– [Man] So can I ask, do you think the pretense of it being a healing process and a healing experience had an effect on your experience? So if someone did this without expectation, what would happen or do you think their experience would differ from yours?
– I think intention is vital.
– Intention is key.
– Even in people’s initiations, intention is really key.
– Yeah, you have to go there with an intention, yeah.
– Yeah, I’ve done a toad ceremony, and no matter what the hell they told me, three seconds into it, you’re gone for 15 minutes to another planet.
– But it holds you.
– I don’t know what intention would’ve done. Yeah, but what I’m saying is trust me, it’s takin’ you somewhere, right?
– That’s true, and that’s a medicine I have been blessed to experience, and yet I feel like the intention is somehow something whispered to god or spirit. That carries you through as a guiding light, even if you’re in the death process. And that holds you in the integration. I also wanted to offer, on my website, www.ebast.net, I have a page dedicated to iboga that has safety tips and a provider listing and all kinds of amazing resources, and a documentary, great videos, research, medical research there.
– Cool, thank you for doing that work. Yeah, that’s huge. I just wanna be clear about one more thing here, we’re talking about spirit medicine, we’re not talking about Saturday night kind of party. One of the biggest issues I have with people who are like, “I’ll never do mushrooms again, “I took too many and went to Disneyland once.” It’s like, don’t be a dumbfuck. This class of drugs is for something else.
– Oh yes.
– It is for healing on the spirit level, so you have to go in with intention, you have to go in understanding that you’re there to do some work.
– Oh, yeah, I made that mistake once. When I was 18 years old, I took a massive dose of mushrooms, not knowing what I was doing, as a recreational party drug, and it kicked my ass. And I will tell you that that was the medicine journey for me, because that medicine schooled me, it spanked me, I thought I was gonna die, and it showed me that this was something that wanted to be held in ceremony and at least with very, very strong intentions. And definitely with iboga. He had a friend who mail ordered iboga and this is one reason he was terrified, initially, to try it, that I read about in there. That took it on his own, no tribe, the medicine loves community. It loves a teacher, it loves accountability, it’s a tribal relationship based medicine. So he took it on his own, god knows, doesn’t really know how to dose himself, ’cause it’s an organic dosing process, with a total alkaline medicine, and gets himself off of drugs. And then, as he’s not having any skill set to hold that experience, he’s thinking later on, “Hm, I’m gonna appropriate this, “I’m gonna party, and then when it’s inconvenient, “when I get addicted, I’ll use the medicine again.” And he went through several experiences, and the medicine kicked his ass harder, and harder, and harder, until he was left with some health problems, who knows, from what he ordered online and also screaming for his life in an emergency room.
– [Chor] But he’s terrified of doing it again.
– He should be.
– Yeah, that’s not how the medicine is gonna help us.
– Because he’s taunting it.
– Yeah, exactly.
– There’s a whole series of things that help the medicine to work, including, community, relationship, the ceremony, and integration. The medicine gives us revelations, but then maybe we need to build a new skill set to make that happen.
– Well, I mean, if you’ve gotten yourself to a point in life, where you have serious problems and you’re addicted to heroin, then chances are, some of the habits that you formed, some of the behavior that you formed, isn’t serving you. Right? And you’re self medicating in a way that’s very… It’s time for a computer system reboot and probably an operating system upgrade.
– [Elizabeth] That’s a great analogy.
– It’s just faulty memes that are just running.
– Faulty memes.
– Right, and we all have ’em. Jesus, I mean…
– Sometimes they’re deep rooted from childhood, and sometimes we don’t even know that they’re running in the background, that they’re semi-conscious, not even fully conscious.
– That’s it, and so this is serious stuff, it is very strong stuff, I was first turned on to it when I started looking at, I was doing a fair amount of detox work as an acupuncturist in my early days. And we’d have all of these heroin addicts come in and you put needles in their ears, and you’re like, “Yeah, I feel better.” I’m like, “This shit ain’t working.” This is a bandaid, so I started looking at what would actually, has to be that spirit alter level, right? ‘Cause it’s a spirit level pathology, you are at that level where you have to go to the highest source and then shift. And then guess what? You walk out of there, and you’re done with the drug.
– Of course, 24 hours..
– Yeah, craving was gone. And the “I love my life,” you know?
– Zero cravings?
– Zero. I didn’t wanna put anything bad in my body ever again. Still don’t.
– All good things and all healing starts with deep and true self love and self respect.
– And that was what, four years ago, I think, yeah?
– All good healing starts with deep and true self love and self respect, that’s one for you. The book is called Heart Medicine: A True Love Story, Elizabeth Bast and her longtime lover, spraypaint artist, Chor Boogie.
– [Elizabeth] And you can find his art at www.chorboogie.com.
– And you’re down here for?
– I am having an art show in La Jolla at Monarch Gallery, Monarch Arredon Contemporary Gallery and I’ve just been out here working on 21 pieces, opens April 29th, yeah.
– So if you’re seeing this live, go there, if you’re seeing it after, look up his stuff.
– Please do.
– Yeah, and we’re also speaking, I’m speaking at Psymposia Psychedelic Stories Event in Los Angeles, tomorrow night is the 26th? Psymposia.com, that’s P-s-y-m-p-o-s-i-a.com and then another one on the 27th in San Diego, also found on Psymposia.com, and amazing activism around that medicine and all medicines.
– Great, well all I know is what we have now doesn’t work great and what we have the potential of bringing over is amazing in the right hands.
– In the right hands. We have a lot to learn from plants.
– And I don’t like the medical industry taking any of this stuff over, they compartmentalize. It’s that whole thing, right? When you take alkaloids versus extracts versus the whole plant and all this. It’s like the original story of Adam and Eve when they fell, they didn’t just see the garden. There was the rock, there was this, you start seeing things separately instead of just the beauty of the garden. So plant medicine is about the plant. So this extractionary mentality is very, it’s not distillation.
– Well you can patent extractions, and I will say that there’s a lot to be gained from a melding and a cross pollination of the medical professionals and the shamanic communities to share knowledge. The medical professionals have a lot to share about the medical conditions and pharmaceutical drugs that Westerners are on that some traditional providers might not know all about, so it’s a really exciting time. And there’s some great people in the medical field that mean well, that have skill and talent and intelligence and love. So I’d love to see more cross pollination inbetween those worlds.
– It’s a worldview, so if you’re in a reductionist worldview, and you think that it’s your way or the highway, then you’re just never gonna get it. And you’re just one of those types of doctors. And then there’s these openminded doctors that are like, “Wow, this is amazing,” and the evidence is incredible and it doesn’t fit my belief system or my worldview, but I can’t deny the fact that this evidence is incredible, and that’s a real scientist.
– Oh, we met so many amazing doctors and psychiatrists at the psychedelic science conference that was put on by MAPS.
– And they’re probably, some of them are hiding, and not handing out their business cards. Because they can’t, because it’s challenging.
– There’s more and more coming out, that’s true. They have a medical education that is subsidized by pharmaceutical drug companies, so it’s a delicate situation. But there’s more coming out because it’s so clear that these medicines have a lot to offer.
– Yeah, well, this is just the beginning. Any awareness we can help spread on this, I’ve heard amazing stories. I’ve also heard people getting into trouble, you’re gonna be a reckless cowboy, you’re gonna get your ass kicked. People get in trouble, but if you go in it with an open heart and you work with the right people and all the circumstances are there, it’s very interesting. Alright, we’re out of time. Check out their websites, this to me is fascinating stuff. If you have someone who has an addiction problem in your life, don’t just take what you’re told for an answer, start doing some research. Look up the resources, go find your own love story with yourself and live with the people in your life.
– [Pedram] Thank you so much for being here.
– Thank you so much.
– Thank you.
– Thank you, I’ll see you next time.