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Charu Morgan has spent her whole life seeking the place where divinity and sexuality meet. Having studied with experts in the field for years, she shares her profound transformational techniques with 1000s of clients who discover their own truth. In this heart-centered interview, she dispels the misconceptions about what Tantra is, what it is not and how anyone can begin to find the true nature of their bodies again.
Misconceptions About Tantra
Yes tantra is about sex, but also not about sex at all. It is a path of meditation that helps you to reconnect to your body. This changes your relationship to everything in your life. Most spiritual studies lead to a place where they dead end at sexuality. Yet there is no separation between the energy that we raise in sex and the energy that grows the trees. Through Tantra we learn that everything is an act of love making. Even taking a breath.
Learn How to Get Out of Your Own Way To Find Something Deeper
Our society is perverted in so many ways. Modern humans have purposefully and very intelligently shut down places of pain and hurt and locked them away in the body because we don’t have the capacity or the tools to deal with them. Anytime we try to shut down natural energy in the body, there will be perversions. The energy must come out. The separation of the male-female energy in our culture speaks to how fragmented we are. And a lot of this is due to the disconnection that we feel within ourselves.
How Do I Start?
The first step is desire. Rather than looking at desire as something that can lead you astray, desire can be an expression of something divine. Just having the impulse to want to have better sex is enough. Or simply the desire to want to improve your relationship with yourself and the world. Being excited about what is possible is the first step. You don’t need to have a partner to begin this practice. No one gets naked. In fact this is about your relationship with yourself first. Charu tells us how easy it is to begin this practice and rediscover who we are.
– Welcome back to The Urban Monk. Dr. Pedram Shojai in studio talking about something that I’ve been jonesin’ to talk about on the show for a while, tantra. We live in a culture that has so many weird things with sex. I mean, the puritans came over here. They did what they did. We judge, we freak out, we trip out, and then we have an enormous porn industry. And it’s like this crazy place where somewhere in the middle there’s this love making and identity that can kind of be bolstered by finding sensuality with sexuality, and I don’t feel like it gets talk about enough. So today, in studio, I have Charu Morgan, who does this for a living. She’s here local in Los Angeles. She’s been leading workshops and working with clients for years and has been in the space of teaching tantra, and is here to hang out with me, and we’re gonna talk about it. Hi, welcome.
– Hi. Thank you so much. I’m really excited ’cause I too think we need to talk about this more. Yeah.
– It’s funny, right? Like,there’s certain talk shows out there that kind of got famous for talking about sex early on. And then they had their little thing, and they kind of come and go, but in the mainstream of conversation, you know, there’s how to attract a man. How to have six packs abs for the bar tonight. And all this kind of stuff that people are caught up in, but no one is talking about the essence of the spirituality of sexuality. And I think that that has really made the entire conversation base, right?
– Oh, indeed, indeed. Yeah. I mean, we’re really missing the even if you are sexually savvy in our times, even if you are willing to experiment and you’re interested and not wanting to live the life, or the box that most of us are put in about the proper ways to behave, what is out there for us to learn is extremely limited in comparison to what the human body is capable of. Which is really exciting.
– So, where’d you grow up?
– I grew up in Greenwich, Connecticut.
– Greenwich, Connecticut.
– Yes, I did, yes.
– You know, Charu, there’s a lot of Charu’s Greenwich, Connecticut.
– Oh, totally, yeah.
– So you obviously found something along the way–
– –that drew you into a path of studying this.
– Tell me a little about it.
– So, I found, I always had a couple of different weird obsessions that most kids, especially in Connecticut, don’t have. Which is, I had an obsession with spirituality and meditation. I was raised really without any religion. I’m a nice Jewish girl, but my parents were not religious at all. So there was a lot of freedom for me to explore, and my mom was listening to Deepak Chopra. So there was a, it’s a okay to start asking questions. It’s okay to seek out something more. And that was a really big part of my life, was what is reincarnation? And my first book report in school in Greenwich, Connecticut was about reincarnation. And then, with no real influences that were saying, hey, this is a cool thing. It was more just, I’m hungry for this and I don’t quite no why. And then parallel to that, I had a very early curiosity about sex and sexuality. We could psychoanalyze me and say there were difficulties in my relationship with my father, and that brought up wanting to get attention sexually. And there was, but it came with a big curiosity. And so, it felt like very separate sides, and most of the spiritual paths that I would find and I would dive deeper into would lead to what seemed to be dead ends where sexuality was not really part of it. Either you were gonna become a monk. Or you were, you know, where there was this very real separation. And that, in my gut, I knew it wasn’t the way for me, for me.
– And so, I came across this book, this Mantak Chia book.
– “Cultivating Female Sexual Energy”.
– That’s it! Thank you, ’cause I was having so much trouble remembering the name. “Cultivating Female Sexual Energy”. Somehow I found it, I still have it. I wrapped it because at the time I was taking the train in Connecticut to New York City, and I was afraid people on the train would see it–
– Yeah, judge you.
– –judge me, I’d get unwanted attention. And so, I still have it covered in a very beautiful paper that I found at 16. And I knew, there is something here. Not only is it here, but it’s in my body already. I know this. And I have to find the teachers who will help me rediscover what’s already in my body.
– So it sounded true as you read it, and even though you didn’t understand it quite yet.
– I didn’t understand a thing.
– Oh, especially at that age, I mean, you have to have–
– It was complicated.
– A, it’s complicated. And, B, you have to have kind of run some sexual miles, right? You know, you need some time in the bed chamber, right? And I’m pretty sure you hadn’t spent too much time there at 16, right?
– None, right.
– So, you know, it takes a little bit of life experience–
– –to get what he’s talking about in that book.
– Absolutely, and it was also. It took me, you know, many, many years later, now I can open that book, and I can look at it, and I can see a practice that, to me, was so abstract and very difficult to understand, which I think would be for anyone who hasn’t already studied this live with a teacher, helping them to see what we’re talking about when we say breathe into your genitals, or who knows. Now I can look at those practices, and I can say, I can feel that practice in my body as I look at the description. But at the time, I could feel the magic, but I couldn’t understand.
– So, you read this thing. You know it’s true. You are still 16.
– I know it’s true. Mm-hmm.
– And then you’re like, okay, damn, I gotta learn some stuff.
– So, it sounds like you went Hindu. It sounds like you went into the Indian traditions after some time.
– Yeah, it was a winding road. So, at 17, I had my first sexual partner and started to have experiences of, as you do in love making, but I was lucky, and it was someone who I was in love with who also was in to meditation. And we started to explore things like what happens if we meditate and get our bodies in a deep state of relaxation before we make love. And I started to just kind of stumble together.
– That is so rare at 17 because the guys are just like bang, bang, bang, I’m insecure.
– And the girls are like, oh, my God, I can’t believe I’m doing this. That’s not normal.
– To be fair, he wasn’t 17.
– To be fair. He was 28 at the time and very also advanced. If we think of a 28-year-old, that’s also pretty advanced.
– Sure, sure.
– So I was very, very blessed. And so we started to discover this together, and I just had this knowing that it wasn’t the time now, but that sometime this would be my work. I just always had this feeling, I said this feeling that touch, as in, like, I wanted to be the kind of person that when you hug them, you felt them. You just felt them all the way through. I know that that was so important to my being and also knew that I be the one that people would ask about sex stuff, and I would know. And I would know it more than what is out there. I just had this feeling. But the study of it took, let me think, I was probably 21 before I found myself in India, in a commune, discovering some more practices to start activating the body, opening the body, waking up the sexual energy, and using, really using that power that we have, that we all generate from biology, how amazing is that? Such a potent way to connect with power, and then to be able to use that to fuel our awakening. So it probably wasn’t until 21, other than little patches here and there, and then sex exploration sexually, that it started to feel like it was really coming together. And then the minute that I learned a couple of practices, it was like psshh, just woke up in my body. And I hung up a shingle pretty quickly and started teaching and sharing because it was so, it was already there, it was already there. It was part of who I was. And then I keep learning. And now I feel like the most baby beginner, after 20 years, I feel like the most beginners that I’ve ever felt, which is a delightful feeling. How great to have a path that keeps being so vast that no matter how much I learn, I still feel like a beginner.
– It is utterly humbling to be in a position where your inner universe starts to flower, and you becoming aware of a power of such magnitude inside of you that you’ve ignored that is now just like, oh, hi, yeah, there’s more.
– Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
– So someone listening to this going, what the hell are these two talking about, right?
– Yes, let’s be clear.
– Right, let’s, yeah, so what happens? So, I come from the Taoist side. I studied this in my tradition. It’s something that I had the fortune of having transmission on, right, it was part of our lineage. And I was like, okay, great. I like sex, I don’t want to give that up. And it became part of this tradition that then was like, oh, shit, this is the practice.
– This is the fireworks right here, right? And I don’t teach it, right, it’s because it’s I’ve always been very careful about it, that people really kind of take it in the wrong direction.
– Oh, they do.
– We were talking offline before we got here. The way she does it is super responsible and spends a lot of time before people get in. I don’t have the time to put all those bumpers on. So I just don’t teach it, right?
– And so, let’s talk about what it is and then what the prep looks like and then what the fallout is if you’re not prepared to grow with it.
– Mm-hmm, indeed.
-Okay, so, essentially, I feel like as modern people, in some ways, most of the work that I wind up doing, even as we go into the deeper levels that I do, I feel like we could consider pre-tantra. And it’s pre-tantra because as modern people, we are holding such a terrific degree of tension, as you know, I’m sure. This is no secret to you. It’s such a terrific degree of tension, such a terrific degree of holding, and then and some of its just physical tension. Some of it is from traumas in our early life. Some of it is from who we think we’re supposed to be because of the culture. Some of it is because of just the movement of our lives and how they were shaped. So, we have, I almost see all of us modern humans as kind of like this–
– Wound up
– –constantly. And so, the first piece that I’m always working with people on is, what can I offer your body that will help you unwind enough that you can even feel what’s true in your body at any given moment, which most of us can’t. And so, that process involved oftentimes something very physical. Sometimes that physicality looks a lot like yoga asana, and sometimes it doesn’t. Sometimes, I use a lot of things that are a little bit more whacky and strange, where we would be moving the body in ways to actually get out of a pattern. So we’re bringing in a bit of chaos, and we’re asking the body to unhook some of the links that have been made that tell us to behave in a certain way. And we’re really doing it purely on a physical way. Your brain doesn’t even have to be on board other than to get you to engage in the practice. And then we’re mixing in, so we’re mixing in movement, breath, we’re using the breath in lots of different ways, and usually, what would be different about my work than maybe some of the more advanced work is that a lot of the time, I’m supporting people that just breathe what I might call naturally again. It is amazing how little we breathe in our culture. It’s actually kind of remarkable that we function. And so, this is a huge thing, is learning how to breathe again. So, a lot of times, I’m working with very, very simple breathing practices, as opposed to sophisticated pranayama, which is also very powerful, because I’m looking to help people find the nature of their body again. And then sometimes we’re using visualization. Sometimes that’s supportive. And what did I say?
– So no one’s got naked yet?
– Nobody’s got naked.
– No one’s got naked.
– Right, that’s the part that most, it’s like, oh, you went to India and basically went in a sweaty room with a bunch of naked people and did this thing called tantra, right? We haven’t even gotten close to talking about tantra yet.
– Oh, no, no, and that’s the thing is, it’s so little of tantra is really about the sex piece, and yet something I say a lot is, it’s all about sex, and it’s nothing about sex at the same time. And it’s an important thing because, as we were talking about before the show, our culture is so perverted, and when I say the word perverted, what I mean is we have locked up energy centers in the body so much that the energy perverts. It has to come out sideways in these strange ways that we even just the way we think we’re supposed to behave not sexually. Then add to that the way we think we’re supposed to behave sexually. We’re tangled up in knots. And it’s holding back with everything. So most of us, we are capable of experiencing, just as a human, let’s not even talk about sex yet. Just as a human, we are capable of feeling so much more alive and vibrant in our bodies than we even, 80% of us, 90, will ever touch in our lifetimes.
– So do you feel that sex, because of its power, is such an amplifier that it becomes a pathway for some?
– People choose drugs.
– One of the big problems we had in our Chigong lineage, early like in the 70s, was all these people would come in, and an old man didn’t know the difference. And they were on LSD. ‘Cause they were like, if Chigong is cool, how about mo better, right? How about we do, so now it’s like, okay, well, I can feel. Sex is the only place where I actually feel something.
– Yes. Right, so it’s like an anchor into some sensory experience that’s meaningful and, you know, body based.
– But then you gotta, like, claw back and come back through all this entanglement, it sounds like.
– Yeah, and I think that it’s okay. I mean, I have so much tenderness and love and compassion for even our fixation with sex because we’re so lost. And so, a lot of the people that come and see me, including my own initial interest in tantra, is because we want to have better sex. Now, when the tantric path was created and they were meditating in the forest 5,000 years ago, they weren’t thinking, now, how do we have better sex? They were thinking, how do we use this power as this fuel? But, to me, it is just as valid that a modern person says, I’m in this lull with my partner, or, I’ve just gone through a divorce because we could never sexually connect, or, I have sexual trauma in my past, and I know it holds me back in everything I do, and I know I need help. Whatever the reasons that they might find tantra around based on their sexuality. Or I want to have better orgasms. Or I’ve never had an orgasm. These are real things.
– These are common things.
– Common things, and they’re great reasons to come to tantra as far as I’m concerned because if I can help you resensitize your body from some of the numbing that’s happened, if I can help you learn how to attune to your own body and your own being, to the point that as you’re moving through life, you might even have a moment of presence because you can actually feel the sensation that’s happening in the moment, as opposed to the numbness that most of us feel. If I can support you in feeling that connection with yourself that you can begin to create an attunement with another person, whether they’re your child or your best friend or the person who’s checking you out at the supermarket, or your lover, well, I have already given you some of the tools that, if you’re ready for the next steps of your awakening, you’ll then know.
– And then the adventure begins. You know, which is why I say that a lot of my work winds up being, I’m looking for new words. Psychospiritual, you know, we’re doing, as we open the body, things from the past come up. And we’re creating a safe environment for those things to be met and to move through the body so that we can have more freedom in the body. Some of it is just deep relaxation. Some of it is waking up and feeling super sexual and what is it like if we don’t disperse that energy. And learning to. So, there are these very, very simple pieces that for a modern human are incredible quality of life raisers. Yeah.
– So, there’s in the Taoist tradition, this is something that gets really kind of, I think, played a little overboard, which is this whole semen retention thing.
– Oh, my goodness.
– Oh, my god. Like, I’m gonna die if–
– Face palm.
– –I ejaculate, right?
– And it’s just like, Jesus, man, just blow a load.
– Seriously, once in a while.
– Don’t be that serious about anything, right?
– But there’s something in there that’s a real shift, a dynamic shift in perspective that I think for most men, and in my experience, woman can go there. In my understanding of tantra, it’s like you follow the female energy predominantly, and you follow that in. And there’s different ways of running it, but there’s a power there, and the male energy can lock into that and go. Most guys are like, I don’t get it, what do you mean don’t come, right? And so, the idea of turning that energy around and sending that energy instead of out–
– And going up–
– –and awakening different spiritual centers and waking up to yourself is, there’s such an orientation shift in how most, especially men, think about sex.
– That it’s, like, earth shattering, right?
– They’re almost like offended that you would suggest that.
– Oh, yes, I have so many things that I say that can be offensive initially to the modern mind, yeah.
– Yeah, yeah. And so, for me, there’s two forms of immortality. One is through your children. And another one is through your crown, right? And so, one of these paths, the path of the householder was always to have children and grow and da-da-da-da-da. The path of the ascetic traditionally was to come up the spine, wake up to your internal self, and understand who you are, right?
– And that’s really it. Not, like, float. Not, like, you know, do Jedi shit, but understand who you are.
– Yeah, essentially, yeah.
– Yeah. So, how does one step into kind of an orientation shift in their sexuality to then have tantra kind of come in as an operating system? What’s kind of that nuance there?
-I mean, I think the first step is always just the desire. Tantra, depending on which tantric path, but desire is considered, as opposed to maybe in other paths where desire is something that might lead you astray, tantra says your desire, that impulse to move towards something can be an expression of your evolution, or of something divine. And so, so I would say, as I was talking about before, even just the impulse to want to have some kind of better sex, and to know that it might be esoteric in some way is enough to be a first step. And then the orientation changes, I mean, for me, I think it comes from being excited about knowing what’s possible. And that’s something, when I talk to specifically when I’m talking to a couple about what’s possible to open for them in their love making through this work. There’s something that in our culture, because both of us, on both sides, both men and women have been driven to try to get something from our partner, you know? Even if that’s approval. Right, maybe I’m a man and I want to learn all the right things to do for my partner to satisfy her so that I can get her approval because I love her so much and I want her to love me back. Even in that, that’s a lovely thing.
– That’s still deal making.
– There’s hooks in there, you know? So, there’s something really exceptional that most men in this world will never experience, and that is that when a woman fully opens to her own power, and I think this is very much what you were alluded to, there is a blessing that can happen for a man, or whoever her partner is. This works no matter what your sexual orientation is. There’s a blessing, almost like a darshan, of what a spiritual blessing that can happen when a woman has dropped very deeply into her internal pleasure, her internal yes. And because of the tension that most people, but also women are bringing into love making because of this subtle deal making that we’re all doing, man doesn’t even almost know that he’s missing out on that blessing. And what is, and so there’s this very, you know, so all of these historical places where we see man kind of putting his power over woman and raping her and pulling from her and trying to get something from her, you can get something from woman when you take it, you can. She’s so rich, you can get something. But there is something that you can receive from woman that is–
– Through woman, almost.
– –through woman, yes, exactly. Through woman that is worth the reorientation. And that, the kind of pleasure. You know, I almost, it’s so hard to put words to, but the best way that I found to describe it is like, most of us and the way our culture defines orgasm is this particular build up of energy, build up of energy, most of the time, we’re tightening our bodies. We’re kind of locking the energy down in our genitals. Very biologically smart, reasonable thing to do if you want to push it out into the world to ultimately make new life. So there’s this pulling together, pulling together, holding, holding, holding. It’s getting stronger, stronger, stronger in the genitals, and then we have this ah-ha-ha-ha, right, and relaxation. And this is a great thing to work with. I love it. And if we can call that, maybe, red. It’s not, but I’m just putting a color to it. And then there’s this entire spectrum, color spectrum, all different shades of red, all different shades of orange, all different shades of yellow, and it goes all the through to, I don’t know, maybe white.
– White, yeah.
– Right? And on this side, all of these are interesting. And why wouldn’t we explore them? I mean, we are human, we get this opportunity.
– But this is all we know.
– This is all we know.
– This is sex. Yeah.
– This is all we know.
– And then when this becomes boring, then it’s about why don’t you dress up like a nurse. Why don’t you do handstands. Why don’t you bring your friend over, right?
– Right, right.
– Because you’re stuck right in there.
– It’s still, exactly. You’re cycling in there. And when we come into this space that we could maybe say is white all the through to, let me just also say, somewhere in the middle here is just rippling, just pleasure rippling through the body, where there is no did I come, did you come, did I make you come? It’s just, oh, my God, my body is opening to a ripple that’s moving through me, and because we’re attuned to one another, this is why you can’t cheat on this. You can’t do this just ’cause you learned a technique to recirculate your orgasm.
– Right. In some good more chicks seminar.
– Yeah, it’s not gonna work.
– This is, there has to be an inner sensitivity, an inner attunement, that as my body opens into a ripple of pleasure, you can’t help it, because you are inside of me, and we are in union in such a way that your body ripples. It might not be the same pleasure as me. But so it’s moving through both of us. And it’s maybe something we could say is more subtle than this big explosive thing. So that’s maybe somewhere in the middle. And then when we get way over to this side, which may be more accurately, this is a circle, but it–
– Who knows?
-Yeah. But when we get all the way over to this side, then we have something that the best way I could come to describe it is it’s almost as if if you take this big explosive orgasm that’s just so delicious for two seconds and you could sit in the middle of it. And it’s almost like the tornado is swirling around you. But everything is in slow motion, and you’re acutely engaged in every sensation. And we could also say, it’s no different than awakening. It’s absolute, total presence in the body. And that cannot happen unless there is attunement with yourself. You don’t have to be perfect. Because we’re all just, it’s all about how many pockets of this? And then as you get, oh, pocket after pocket, we’re learning to expand our capacity to stay in that space, which we could maybe say is moving toward a full embodied awakening.
– There’s parts of this so much, there’s so much you just said that, you know, this might take us three days to unpack in multiple shows. When you’re talking about the localized sensation of orgasm–
– –one of the kind of primary things you learn is tantra is you start moving up the spinal channels, and you low that sensation to now uncouple from just your genitals.
– And it starts to kind of open as it goes and grows up through all of your centers and through your body.
– And that’s where people get really scared. It’s like, I don’t know what’s happening to me here, right?
– Yes, yes.
– And the moral of the story is, get the hell out of the way, right?
– Totally, well said.
– Yeah, get out of the way, it’s bigger than you.
– Yeah, and I think it’s right to be scared because what I love about tantra, I’m a kamikaze, I just, and I think most of people who are drawn to me, we’re type A and we’re kamikaze. So we’re totally getting in our own ways, but we want something deeper so much. And I think, like any awakening process, it’s right to be afraid, because, yeah, when that energy starts unfolding in your heart, you are going to have to touch some of that pain that you locked down that hurt your heart from whoever knows what. And, as far as I’m concerned, I’m more interested in the sensation that opens in your body and your capacity to be with that power than I am about what psychologically what was the issue that happened.
– So, there’s something I’m hearing here that’s really important is that it takes sex and love making out of the realm of being a sedative and a distraction into a path of growth and ascension.
– And that’s a real fundamental shift, where it’s just like, I’m so stressed out, I need to go get laid. Like, honey, meet me upstairs, right?
– Versus, let’s go do some work on ourselves, right?
– Oh, yeah.
– Let’s spend some time in this space.
– Yes, and think about how that changes relationship, because one of the things I like to say is that oftentimes we put relationship in this trading needs space, or worse, from all the fairy tales and the frickin’ movies, and the, we have this idea that our relationship is supposed to make us happy all the time. And if it’s not, then we’re bad and we’re wrong And we do a lot of self-abuse comparing ourselves to somebody’s Facebook feed or whatever it is. And here, we start to change the focus so that your relationship is your greatest tool for spiritual growth. So, when things are hitting the fan, it’s a lot of opportunity. A lot of opportunity to be present to a terrific amount of sensation, and that journey, it is an awakening journey, because most of us, we purposefully, and very intelligently, shut down these places where there have been pains and hurts and locked them and held them in our bodies ’cause we didn’t have the capacity to be present.
– Or the tools.
– And the tools, yes, absolutely. To be present to those things. And so, here we are learning to train our bodies to be strong enough to say yes even when we’re touching something that is really uncomfortable, which maybe we’ve been repeating with our partner, that maybe came up in our family dynamics. And I say maybe with a little smile on my face because that’s probably the case.
– ‘Cause we’re all fucked up.
– Yeah, we’re kind of a mess. It’s okay.
– Yeah, we’re kind of a mess. We get questions from the audience.
– I want to make sure–
– –we honor that as well. Sean.
– Yeah, so we got one from Marcus. He said certain spiritual paths say that sexual energy is the source of all our energy. Is this true in your?
– Source of all our energy. I would say, simple answer is yes. A little bit broader answer would be, in some ways, from my perspective, there really is no separation between the energy that we raise in sex and the energy that grows the grass, you know? That it really is, we tend to make a distinction, my sexual energy versus energy. But the sexual desire and the biological movement is really just a way that humans have capacity to generate energy. But that energy itself is not separate from all the other universal movement.
– Well said. You know, there’s this principle of creation, right, that happens in this kind of meeting of yin and yang, men and women, male and female, you know, opposites, however that energy works, right, for you in your relationship. And, to me, this is the energy of birth, it’s the energy of death, it’s the energy of all life. And you’re kind of worshiping on the alter of that in a tantric encounter, right?
– Like, you’re in this pure energy, this form. And because you’re choosing, maybe sometimes you were choosing to have a baby, but you’re choosing to not procreate here. You’re using that energy almost like in ceremony to build a bigger bonfire–
– –to ignite whatever you’re working on. And it’s just, there’s something so powerful about stepping into this and then understanding, like you said, oh, shit, this is just the tip of the iceberg.
– It’s just the tip of the iceberg. And that’s the thing is because maybe our entry point is sex, which it wouldn’t have always been, but perhaps maybe for a lot of my clients it is, and for myself it was. And yet then everything becomes an act of love making. Everything becomes an act of union. So every breath is an act of intimacy, is an act of love making. So it’s very, I almost think that our sexual experiences can be this microcosm where we can look at pretty much everything that’s moving for us, as human, as this human, we can see, actually very acutely in our sexuality, and that’s something that’s very interesting of, you know, if you have someone who’s done a lot, a lot, a lot of development and avoided the sexuality, I can almost always see where there’s an opportunity for them to go deeper, whether or not it’s about engaging sexually again, but looking at what the threads are and their connection or their disconnect from their sexuality.
– So, you look at what ISIS does. They take pubescent boys, and they say the one thing that you think about all the time, you can’t think about, right? And, but don’t worry, when you go do some bullshit for us, there’s 72 virgins waiting for you. So it’s like you pull people away at this unnatural time in life especially from the most powerful kind of driving force of their biology and their psyche. And then they have all these kind of weird aberrations. They do bad things, right?
– And so, we see this also, and this is kind of a provocative subject, but we see this also in religions in the west, right?
– You have lots of sexual abuse within the clergy because they’re just, you know, they’re being told one thing, but they have these urges. Then they sin, they judge themselves. Like how could I think this? I gotta go pray some more. You know what I mean?
– I do.
– And it’s really, there’s no pressure release valve for that. It’s hard to pray that off.
– Yeah, it is, and that’s the thing that I love about tantra so much, is that there’s such a beautiful and rich acceptance. And this is, I also wanna just give a caveat to say not all forms of tantra involve sexuality at all. There’s some ascetic forms and practices.
– [Dr. Shojai] Sure.
– So, but I think there’s been a big mistake where I believe there may be a part of evolution for certain humans where sexuality is no longer something that they need. Let’s say that. Where there’s an organic process that that’s not at the forefront. And somehow someone took that idea and pinned, you know, oh, this must be what it means to be a religious person. And then we have a lot of situations where it’s being put on someone. Like, oh, if you were this religious person that we need you to be, that you’ve agreed you’ll be, like a priest, let’s say, for example. Well, then you have to wear this idea, this concept, as opposed to it being internal natural evolution. And, yeah, that creates perversion. Anytime we try to shut down energy that is moving in the body, it will pervert. It will move as long as we’re humans on this earth, you know?
– And look at the chasm in western culture, right? We have a male God. He says do this shit, or you’re in trouble. And you women do this, right? And when daddy comes home, have his slippers ready. And so, just all of that then turns into this kind of perversion of the male-female roles and how we interact. And now you’re like my yes man wife, not my partner.
– Yes. And so, all of these weird relationships. I had this guy on the show, John Gray, and he didn’t, he was talking some funny shit. But it’s basically like all this male-female dynamic of how there’s all these power struggles in stuff. And a lot of this, I think, comes from this kind of separation of the male-female energy because it’s not this. We’re not partnered–
– –in a way.
– I think that’s absolutely true. And we can’t, because of how, in a lot of ways, it’s because of how fragmented we are and how disconnected we are from ourselves. And again, we can, oh, very interestingly, some of these overlays of, oh, well, this is what it means to be religious. Or this is what it means to be a good person. We have these overlays, and then you have these funny places in history where government gets involved and says, wait a minute, we can use this. And this is a very effective way to control people. And then that kind of gets fuzzy over time because it just becomes the norm. And then we have everybody’s a little bit of a mess, and we’re all missing the big picture, that if we work together, and I want to be very clear, we’ve talked a lot about male-female connection, but this really works, these elements are moving, no matter what the partnership is. And this greater place where the deep opening happens inside of you, and that reverberates to create this opening inside of your partner. And then together, there’s this constant invitation to open to deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper, and yes, very frightening places because we can’t control anything in those places. And that, I think, is one of the reasons why women, in particular, has been pushed under for so long, because she is very difficult to control pure movement of energy, which is very strong in woman, strong in man too, but in a different way.
– No, it’s terrifying. It’s actually terrifying how much can move through woman naturally, organically, psychically, all of it. And so, and I think, all of this kind of understanding of, you know, what the early kind of technique-based tantra guys that are, you know, teaching, like, locking and not ejaculating and all that. I think a lot of that has to do with the male energy short circuiting and not being able to handle the vibration of that magnitude, right? So it’s like, oh, my God, where is she going? This is terrifying, right?
– Absolutely. And that’s what, for me, I’m constantly interested in breaking all the rules. If I see someone who has perfect techniques, I’m completely uninterested because all of that’s telling, I’m uninterested in being swooned by that, because all that’s telling me is that you have control issues.
– Mm-hmm. No, no, no, I got this. Tantara, five stars, right here. I’m a general.
– Yeah, exactly, exactly. And so, and that’s great because if, let’s say, for example, if you wanted to be my student, this you person, who is, oh, I totally have my tantra five stars, and I know how to hold my ejaculation. I know how to push on the G-spot in a certain way, then if you were interested in going to the next level and actually facing some of those things that you’ve been so afraid of, which is why you’ve tried to control that energy in the body so much, well, I could help with that. That’s the most exciting place for me.
– Oh, my God, the asshole rehabilitation project. Yeah, and we all are, right? We all are.
– I don’t get a lot of students that that’s the particular energy, but–
– Sure, sure. No, I’ve met a lot of those people, right? Growing up in the martial arts and the Taoist arts and all this.
– You know, I got the guys that are like, I got partners waiting in line, you know, you should see what I could do to her. And you’re like what?
– Then we look at all the ego stuff that’s tied to that.
– Yeah, I mean, what are you a rockstar?
– Like, that’s not interpersonal anymore.
– And, you know, one of the other great things about tantra is it’s all welcomed, it’s all okay. It’s all fine. It’s all a part of it, you know? We really, and I’m not the best at this, but it really is, in a certain way, without hierarchy. Because it’s really just about the desire. If that man’s desire to really to have his five stars and feed the ego in that particular way, then that’s okay. There’s a place for that on this earth. It doesn’t have to be a problem unless he’s interested in something deeper.
– So long as you’re not hurting people.
– Yeah. Although tantra, tantra itself doesn’t have that caveat. That would be more of a human morality caveat, which I’m in favor of. But tantra itself wouldn’t necessarily say that.
– Well, no, I mean, look, I’ve spent a lot of time in India. Right, I’ve spent a lot of time with the Chinese. In India, it was like what do you mean you care? Right?
– And so for me coming from the west, it was still just like, yo, yo, yo, no. There are boundaries.
– And this is something I care about. So the world is all mixed up now, right?
– So you have to understand where something hails from. A lot of these old Taoist masters used to have young, young, girls. The old man was, like, 70, and he had 20-year-old girl with him because he liked the young yin energy.
– The shakti.
– Yeah, the shakti, he was drinking from the fountain, right? And so, we can look at that and be like, yo, that’s gross, right? But in that culture, it wasn’t, right?
– Yeah, and that’s, I mean, all of this, it’s an interesting thing to talk about because it’s all arbitrary in some way.
– [Dr. Shojai] Sure.
– And that’s something that tantra, you know, as you swirl deeper into it will definitely challenge and push up against, why do I believe what I believe? And how much do I want to hold onto that? And that’s not to say that anyone has to, I don’t, all I am trying to say is that the questions are interesting.
– Yes, well, in the age of Google, answers are free.
– That’s cute.
– It’s really, what questions do you have, and what better questions can you bring me? Right? And so, let’s look for bigger questions, which helps us ask bigger and bigger questionS.
– And maybe bigger questions that can’t be Googled.
– That’s it. The real questions cannot be Googled.
– The real questions can’t. Yeah.
– Right. And that’s where Google just falls flat on its face.
– Which is great because Google can give us the little pieces, building blocks, and then we’re always left to the self-discovery.
– Yeah. And so, self-discovery through partnership with somebody through tantra as a vehicle, right, this is something that I, you know, I don’t think I’ve ever done a show on tantra yet, no? Yeah, so this is something I want my listeners and my viewers to check out. I want them to explore. What would you recommend? Can people work with you? Like, how do we get people into this work?
– Absolutely, well, I would love to work with some of your listeners. And the first thing also is just that it doesn’t have to be through partnership. You know, as we were talking before the show, most of my clients are actually single. Or maybe they’re in partnership and their partner isn’t interested in tantra. And that’s great. Partnership is not required in order to get the most out of this work because so many of the first steps, like you were saying initially, getting to the sex part, it isn’t even the beginner steps. So there’s so much work we can do on our own. So for both couples and singles, they can go the my website, embodytantra.com. And there’s a freebie there if they put in their e-mail address, which is a tantra start-up kit. And it’s three videos. It’s a really nice way to just get a simple start of, I’m curious about this, I want to learn more. What are a few things I can do? And I think that’s the best way for them to get started. And they can contact me directly through the site as well as if they want more information about working one-on-one with me, or, yeah.
– Wonderful, thanks for being available. That’s really sweet. You know, it’s hard. There’s a lot of, and I’m gonna vouch for this here, there’s a lot of douchebags trying to teach this stuff. So it took us a long time to find a nice person who actually knows what they’re talking about. And so, you want to make sure you’re learning it from someone who is heart centered and cares and also has pedigree and knows what they’re doing, and she’s run her miles, she’s done it. So thank you so much for being here.
– Thank you so much for having me. It was so fun.
– Thank you, and let me know what you think. Go check out her site. We’ll put it in the blog as well. We’ll put it in the comment lines just so you don’t lose it. But if you have an experience of tantra, I want to hear about it. Let me know. Let me know what it’s done for you and your life. And let’s start a conversation right here, right now.