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- Runs an advanced integrative clinic in Detriot, Michigan
- He regularly sees a wide variety of patients
- He has had a plant-based diet for 40 years
- 12% of calories in the US are from Fruits and Vegetables
- 1% of Americans are eating enough fruits and vegetables
- There is a correlation between lack of Fruits and vegetables and heart disease
- Proper diet Education is the best way forward
- Convenience is killing us
- Even non-organic produce is better than nothing
- There is 80% less magnesium in apples than there was 80 years ago
- Grab an apple instead of a donut
- He recommends eating a whole fruit instead of juicing so you get the entire nutritional benefit
- Lifespan in the US is reported to be taking a down turn for the first time
- Obesity is a huge problem in the United States
- you can take simple steps to changing your diet for the better
- Whole Grains are very healthy and associated with less heart disease, diabetes, and obesity
- Gluten can be eaten if the person doesn’t have specific symptoms because of it
- Your can get a cat scan of your arteries
- If you’re a 0, you’re in good shape, if you’re a 1000 then you should consider a lifestyle change
Interview Notes From The Show:
– Hey, welcome back to the Urban Monk. I am in studio with a guest who is walking. This is great. Dr. Joel Kahn is one of the prominent names in cardiology. He’s written a lot about heart health, and to practice what he preaches, he is on a treadmill desk kind of coming in through Skype in studio. Doc, welcome.
– Thank you, and happy to both talk some heart and burn a few calories at the same time.
– That’s it, that’s great. When we first started doing this show, I would stand because I’m standing desk guy. But I’m also, like, a move-around-a-lot guy. So it’s like listen, I can’t focus the camera on you so he sat my ass down.
– Well, I mean, we may get you on a treadmill before the next edition of Urban Monk. I’m excited to be on.
– It’s great to have you, it’s great to have you. So you are one of the prominent names out there. Your book, your last book, your Whole Heart Solution, is now in paperback, and you’ve been kind of, you’ve been holding it down for a lot of the plant-based nutrition out there. And you’re seeing lots of patients still in Detroit. Yes, no?
– Yeah, I have a pretty advanced integrative preventive clinic, so I’m still pretty busy during the day and do my extra stuff at night.
– Who comes in? I mean, are people coming into you? I’m assuming they already have a diagnosis from their GP or something. They already have some heart trouble coming in or is it the wise ones–
– Yeah, I have a very interesting kind of pie chart who sees me. Some are the hardcore patients, bypass, stents, just not happy how they’re doing, not happy with the information they’re getting, know that there’s more out there. Some are people, my favorite, show up, “I’ve got a crease in my ear lobe, “I read your article it says it might be a sign,” or, “My brother had a heart attack. “I feel great, I just ran a half-marathon, “make sure I stay this way.” I mean, people are very interested in what’s available in terms of advanced cardiac testing. And then there’s probably the last piece. There’s a lot of people that are partially plant-based or are plant-based. It’s very hard to find a supportive physician that might take them to the next level or know about supplements or be able to evaluate their nutrition. So I do cardiology and I do general practice, but it’s a real interesting mix. And my main goal is to identify and, if possible, reverse atherosclerosis. So I have a very advanced kind of set up.
– So plant-based, let’s talk about that because you’re holding it down for plant-based. Vegetarian/vegan, let’s define your system here.
– Yeah well, my world began at age 18, University of Michigan, first day undergraduate studies. That’s 40 years ago. I became a vegetarian on that day because the cafeteria was disgusting, and I chose to eat the salad bar exclusively. And within a few years, I read some books like John Robbins’ Diet for a New America, and by 1990, when I began practice and I had done some really advanced training in cath lab and stenting and heart attack treatment. I was the guy three in the morning rushing 100 miles an hour to treat your heart attack. Within three weeks of starting practice, there was Dean Ornish’s paper sitting in my mailbox that the Lifestyle Heart Trial said you could reverse heart disease with a lifestyle program that’s centered on nutrition, stress management and exercise, as well as social support. And I was blown away by his paper. I had no idea who he was, but I was already eating that way and began teaching patients. So I’ve been vegan for more than three decades, I haven’t had a burger in pretty close to 40 years. And I’m kind of a loving, friendly vegan. I learned that from Rich Roll, don’t beat him over the head. Love on everybody but what, 12% or so of calories in the United States from fruits and vegetables, and maybe 1% of Americans eating enough fruits and vegetables, there’s lots of room to improve, weather people move a little bit down the spectrum or whether they decide to get every calorie in their life from things that grow in the ground.
– Yep. There’s a lot of conversation around this, people saying obviously, vegetarians and vegans have a challenge with certain foods. They can’t food combine well enough, they’re not getting enough protein. What’s your stance on that?
– Yeah, most of that has gone away by the wayside. The American Dietitian and Nutritionist Association, I think I got that right, used to be the dietetic, hundred-thousand-member group of dietitians and affiliated nutrition experts, just published a new position paper two weeks ago, and they’ve pretty much, and they’re a conservative group and by no means an animal rights or vegan group, that you don’t have to worry about protein, food combining and all the rest if you’re eating a broad variety, you’re eating some fruits, some vegetables, some legumes, some nuts and seeds, you’re gonna get everything you need and you don’t have to keep track, whether you’re an infant, a pregnant mother, child, adult or elderly. And I find that in practice and believe that. I check very advanced vitamin levels, nutritional assessments in meat eaters and omnivores, as well as my vegan population in the clinic. And there’s common deficiencies in both. I don’t think they’re actually all that much greater than those who are eating exclusively plant-based. So we’ve lightened up the rules. It’s not Twinkies and it’s not Pringles and it’s not Diet Coke is your plant-based meal, but if it’s sweet potatoes and beans and on and on, you’re gonna be just fine.
– Interesting. And so when we’re talking about these numbers and how such an atrocious number of Americans are actually eating fruits and vegetables, and then you look at all the cardiovascular kind of casualty numbers, these things line up pretty, pretty spot on in my assessment. So what do we need to do to get more vegetables on the plates of Americans?
– Yeah, it’s always education. I’m aghast. One of my pet peeves, pet topics, pet blog writing is about hospital education on nutrition, and it starts in medical school and it’s pretty close to non-existent. But I’m involved, we could talk about it with a plant-based education group when we just wrote a curriculum for medical schools, so we hope more and more will adopt. They can have it for free. So it starts there, but it really should be in hospitals. You get the example. I mean, patient’s trays, guests, cafeterias, there should be big signs. It doesn’t exist. So education is the maximum, whether it’s green, yellow, red and the salad bar has the big green circle and we explain why. Vitamins, fiber, magnesium, phytonutrients, diabetes, heart disease, obesity, cancer prevention data; or whether it’s just beautiful food. But I think the education is the key. Convenience, it’s easier to grab a pack of pretzels out of a vending machine than it is to get a fresh apple, and that is gonna be difficult. I think there’s already been improvements with grab-and-go foods that are better than burgers and fries. We got Veggie Grill in your part of the world starting to expand with a recent 22-million-dollar venture capital. They’ll take them to the east coast, now make plant-based foods friendly and easy, even if they’re not perfect. I don’t think you need to be perfect. I mean, it’s just gonna take some time. I think the beef burger industry is changing almost quicker than anybody. There’s big money going into substitute meat burgers that look, feel, taste but are plant-based for all the reasons, environment, animals and our health. So it’s happening, but this show and every other little piece is one more chink in the armor of 99% of Americans not eating five or more servings of fruits and vegetables a day.
– How much of this is supply chain issues too? Like, I mean, you could go to your diner down the road and get some, just normal broccoli from, say, Cisco, or one of these kind of food delivery places that’s conventionally grown and maybe doesn’t have all the phytonutrients of an organic one would do. Is that better than nothing?
– Yeah, it’s better than nothing without a doubt. There have been some calculation on that, that what’s the risk to your health? I’m a big organic proponent in my own life. That’s what I’ll always choose over conventional. But what’s the fiber, what’s the water content, what’s the vitamin content compared to the alternative if you can have French fries? It’s the amount of health promotion by eating fruits and vegetables even if their conventional, even if they’ve been shipped 2,000 miles, beats the heck out of the risk of the pesticides and plastic coating that’s on some of our fruits and vegetables. It’s atrocious, and we shouldn’t settle for decreasing nutritional value of an apple. There’s like 80% less magnesium in a conventional apple than there was 80 years ago, because the soil has been raped. We shouldn’t stand for that, but in the meantime, eat the apple, eat an organic apple if you can and do that instead of going for a donut every single darn day.
– What about all this talk about fructose and the fruits being way too sweet and sugary and bringing up glycemic spikes?
– Yeah, it seems to be true that if you go into native populations, there’s a lot of ugly fruit and fruit that has a lot less sugar content. India’s famous for these melons that are very bitter, and they actually help control your sugar. And some people go to Indian produce stores and buy bitter melons as a way to actually control their blood sugar. But the truth is even with the produce we have, you can, again, to think about fruit is it’s gotta be whole fruit. And the statement, the poison comes with the antidote, that being the sugar comes with the water and the fiber that’s in whole fruits, I’m not a fan of juicing fruits where you rip the fiber out. I’m a fan of juicing, but not of juicing fruits, and certainly not God knows many made in such that’s been sitting in stainless vats for a couple years. But there are many, many type one and type two diabetics that have excellent control eating not just small amounts of whole fruits, some of them have pushed it to 80% of calories and have absolutely excellent control. One of those is the famous Vegas comedian Penn Jillette, who, in the last year, has lost about 120 pounds and he eats eight, 10 oranges a day and found his sugar control got better and better to where he’s now off diabetic medicine. There is the possibility of reversing your diabetes using fruit, if you keep fat content in your diet very low.
– What’s your stance on fat? Because you can see in this healthcare industry, everyone’s, it’s this kind of this free-for-all. It’s like fat’s back, bacon’s back, go for it baby.
– Yeah, well the headlines leave people nothing but confused and human nature takes over and the food industry makes delicious-tasting lethal food. So I think we’re in that area where it is a free-for-all. And I think, yeah, we saw for the first time this week that lifespan in the United States is reported to be taking a down term, first time ever reported. And it’s only a small amount. You can come up with a thousand ideas why. Dirty environment, food chain. I think part of it is clearly obesity, and fat is part of the obesity problem. So my own take is I’m very specific about my language. I’m a very big believer in the work that Dr. Dean Ornish in Northern California, the work of Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn in the Cleveland Clinic, and now Joel Fuhrman, that you can reverse cardiovascular disease, at least clinically, and to some extent, actually reverse the blockage eating a plant-based diet very low in added oils and relatively low in even natural fat. Now that’s not the general public. That’s a very small number of people with a very serious heart disease that are looking for a plant-based solution. When you talk to the general public, nuts, we know, should be part of the diet. Avocados, there’s not enough data but yes, they’re absolutely a great source to fill you up and make your skin glow and all the rest. They actually lower cholesterol. So I’m all for avocados, except for this very small group of people that are looking for aggressive and substantial results for serious disease. At the present time, they’re probably best off going with lower oil, well, lower fat diets without added oils. I’m not a big fan of oils in general. So in my own life, I eat relatively low oil, low fat version, but I’m certainly not adverse to nuts and seeds as a source of healthy calories that seem to prolong life. In the last couple weeks, a meta-analysis of 800,000 people in a bunch of studies show that nuts generally reduce cancer by 15%, cardiovascular disease by 25%. That was two dozen almonds a day or 12 half pecans a day. Actually, infectious disease went down by 75%, and you’ve gotta wonder what’s the theory there. But maybe there is something I don’t understand about nuts and our immune system that’s firing it up. Yeah.
– Wow. And this is a meta-analysis that came out just recently?
– Yeah, just the last two weeks, made headlines. New York Times had an article on it in the last 10 days.
– Wow. How do you deal with when you’re trying to convert someone into more plant-based diet with say, tidy? I know a lot of meat eaters are, like, “What, just a salad?” And it’s just that they don’t even have the structure set up psychologically to take that.
– Yeah, absolutely true. And the whole behavioral change theory applies to changing your diet like it does to smoking or alcohol, or whatever other addiction, because most of this is a food addiction. The way mom made food is the way we’re gonna eat most likely. The way your friends eat food is the way you’re gonna eat. So when I start with education, I find the documentary Forks Over, you know the power of movies, so Forks Over Knives is extremely compelling. Some people said if you’re willing to watch three movies, you’ll change your life. Watch Forks Over Knives to get the food piece, watch Earthlings to get the animal kindness piece, and watch Cowspiracy to get the environmental piece. And at the end of about three and a half hours, you’re not going into the butcher shop with the same mindset you went in before that. So education is always number one. Number two is simple steps for most people. The real sick person may be a little quicker. So I heard long ago, give people like three choices. I tell my patients eat an apple a day, get out of dairy because there’s so many dairy substitutes for literally everything; and then try something other than a beef burger, kind of back to that topic. Try a bean burger, try a quinoa burger, lentil burger. See what it’s like to put something you’re very used to doing, a bun, a lettuce, tomato, but don’t put a piece of beef there and see how that goes. And usually, people can handle that and come back pretty positive about those simple steps.
– What’s your take, you mentioned bun. There’s so much press now about gluten and how gluten is so inflammatory. I’ve seen dozens and dozens of patients basically get their lives taken down with gluten issues. How pervasive is it and within your framework? Would you recommend it for people who are vegetarians if they need the carbs and they need basically the calories there?
– Well, again, a pretty broad answer. The bulk of the scientific data is that whole grains are very helpful, whole grains and associated with less heart disease, less diabetes, actually control obesity. But we’re talking truly very strict definition of whole grains, not some intermediate bread source. Now I have a wife who is gluten-sensitive and eats gluten-free. I own a large restaurant in Detroit, we have the largest gluten-free menu in the city, and I also recommend patients with migraines, nasal congestion, Hashimoto’s thyroiditis to go gluten-free. But it’s not my routine recommendation for the person not having any compelling reason, unexplained rashesautoimmune. I’ll let them continue to pack in whole grains, and it seems to be what they will benefit from.
– Okay. And so when you’re talking about heart disease in general, where do you see that kind of biggest issues right now in America? Are we talking cholesterol, are we talking plaque?
– Well, the single biggest issue in my opinion is the failure of the medical system to address that we have the capability to identify existing heart disease when it’s silent, asymptomatic and potentially reversible, but we don’t have a system in place to do that. We do our colonoscopy, we do our mammography, and what the heck do we do for the number one killer in the Western world? What’s paid for in a visit when you’re 50 years old is not even an electrocardiogram. It’s your blood pressure, a few blood tests, and you can have very advanced heart disease or moderately advanced heart disease, have no symptoms and have everything be hunky-dory at your physical and end up like Garry Shandling, very tragically earlier this year. So I’m a big proponent of advanced testing. In my town, for 75 bucks, you can get a CAT scan of your heart arteries, called a heart artery calcium scan. You pay out-of-pocket, it’s cheaper than a night out with your wife or your friends, and you find out the score. If you’re a zero, you’re in great shape for the next five, 10 years. And if you’re a thousand, like a patient of mine today, report came back, you’ve got serious advanced disease that could be life threatening and you have no clue and need to really get on the game. So that’s the single missing piece. That’s not preventive, but an earlier detection can lead to earlier implementation of things as simple as sleeping better, taking aspirin, exercise and eat some fruits and vegetables, and then the whole deep dive. But beyond that, it’s sort of a race between cholesterol and insulin resistance, and they’re intertwined. The increasing waistline of Americans leads to insulin resistance, leads that elevated triglycerides, low HDL. They’re all way too complex and intertwined than to say there’s just a single problem. But too many calories, too much salt, oil, sugar, too many notches in the belt that you can’t fit the clothes anymore.
– Yep. If you had a magic wand and you could just wave it, you would put your tests on the predictive, preventative side on the front, is what I’m hearing. And then how would you start moving vegetables into school systems and cafeterias?
– Yeah. So I would do it. You’re absolutely right about what I would do, is detect it early, and then prevention should start in childhood. Again, education, education. I mean, one, you gotta sneak them in the black bean brownies that people are making. Delicious-tasting blueberry smoothies that have half a cup or a cup of spinach, a child will never see. Just introducing lots of fiber, lots of taste, and not frequenting fast food restaurants. I mean, we’re failing as parents every time we pull into one of those places. We don’t realize how toxic that food is. A study that I point out to everybody is in the mid 90s, a professor at the University of Maryland, cardiologist, did a study where it gave healthy controls a Egg McMuffin. And within 45 minutes, you can measure arterial function, endothelial function, generation and nitric oxide started to plummet dramatically, and kept falling for another four or five hours. So a single exposure to a meal that many parents just buckle on and have kids enjoy because of the time, convenience, tradition, whatever it is, whining in the backseat, certainly, for adults, we know quite toxic and to be avoided at all costs. Yet we have budgets and we have little time and what’s the substitute? Well, places like some, the ethnic places, god forbid learning to make a few meals and packing a few meals at home are the solutions we really need.
– We’re getting a little audio distortion on your end. I don’t know if it was like a clock or something.
– [Dr. Joel] Actually, it was the treadmill, it went back down to baseline. I don’t know why it did it, but it won’t do it anymore.
– Got it.
– I guess I was aggressively climbing and it monitored my heart rate and put it back down.
– No, all good. So you’re saying that 75% of cases of heart attacks, strokes and cardiovascular disease are preventable?
– [Dr. Joel] Yes.
– So we’re talking diet and prediction, prevention measures. So some of it, you gotta go to your doctor. You’re not gonna know unless you have one of these scans, you’ll check for the calcium, you do some form of diagnostics.
– Well, maybe. Let’s talk about the basics. Those numbers, 75, 80%, come from studies in Europe that basically were setup, here’s 20,000 citizens of Stockholm. We ask them all at the beginning, do you have heart disease of any kind, and we get a million data points on them. And 20 years later, we ask who’s had a heart attack or dead of heart disease, and the six things that fall out, that predicted freedom of heart disease or heart attacks 20 years later was six things you don’t really need a doctor for. One was don’t smoke; two was keep your male waistline under 40 inches or your female waistline under 35 inches; number three was walk 30 to 40 minutes a day; number four was enjoy a little alcohol now and then, that’s actually on the positive side; number five was sleep seven hours a night; and number six was eat more than five servings of fruits and vegetables a day, our old friend. So those six lifestyle steps have the power of lifestyle to intervene and reduce our risk or pre-diabetes, insulin resistance, atherosclerosis, lipid abnormalities, the whole spectrum. They probably do a great job of also preventing diabetes and dementia predisposition. So those don’t require a doctor. But yes, I believe in the biggest western country, most advanced, most wealthy, we should be doing this $75, $100 routine test. People should know their inflammatory profiles with at least the C-reactive protein. There’s a form of cholesterol called lipoprotien 20% of Americans have an elevated lipoprotein based on genetics that’s essentially never checked during routine or even cardiology visits, yet it’s known to be highly associated, particularly with families that have strong history of coronary disease throughout their family. So ask your doctor, hey doc you told me I’m good, but could you check my lipoprotein? And if it’s elevated, it’s a tougher issue. Niacin brings it down. We don’t know for sure that, that matters. Carnitine can bring it down, and we don’t know for sure that, that matters. We haven’t had that much research because there isn’t a multi-billion dollar pharmaceutical in the wings that somebody’s gonna fund the big study. So you can use high-tech to take that lifestyle and make it even more protective.
– You mentioned six servings of vegetables a day. I don’t know if my average listener probably does, but the average person in America doesn’t even know what six servings of that would look like. So what are we talking about?
– Yeah, so we’re talking about, your first meal of the day can easily be a bowl of oatmeal, bowl of chia pudding with a mass of blueberries, strawberries, blackberries, and they can be frozen. Frozen fruit is absolutely fine. They can be conventional, they could be organic. So you can clearly get one in, even a lowly banana has fiber, has vitamins, has nutrients. So grabbing a banana versus the typical donut or muffin in the gas station is far preferable. Lunchtime, a salad is a suitable lunch with anything you want in it. That’s gonna be two, three servings. Or a side salad, maybe one or two servings. Or a bean burrito, even my least favorite class of food, fast food, Taco Bell now has a plant-based menu that you can pick from and get beans at least on the run. It’s not my favorite choice, there’s clearly a whole lot of additives and preservatives, but you’ve got a choice. And dinner, again, even if you start with a meatless Monday and start having soups and salads and smoothies and beans and side dishes, and grab an apple. I mean, you’ve just had five or six servings during the day, even if you still have chicken, fish, strip steak, some ribs. Again, when you go back to like that, it’s not the Big Mac, the Egg McMuffin study, it’s actually, it is some work that if you’re eating that kind of poor quality food but you combine it with a salad or combine it with a green vegetable, you actually can blunt that impact on your artery health and your endothelium, simply by adding to the toxic food a non-toxic food that has lots of phytonutrients in it.
– What’s your take on green smoothies and our ability to blend up and get some of the stuff turn into liquid?
– Yeah, that’s funny you asked that. I’ve written on that for mindbodygreen, and I had a research out a little bit. So in 1998, three researchers won the Nobel Prize for discovering that our arteries make this amazing gas called nitric oxide, and you take arginine and then you need an enzyme called inas and you make nitric oxide, and then you can have a sexual responsiveness and you can have a normal blood pressure, then you can have arteries that don’t clot and don’t form all kinds of plaque. So nitric oxide is amazing. But in the last 10 to 12 years, we’ve learned there’s another way to generate it from dietary nitrates, beets, beetroots, the reason athletes are using beet powders; and then leafy greens, kale, bok choy, Swiss chard, collards, spinach, will all provide that if you chew, you will create a chemical reaction with bacteria on your tongue, you’ll convert dietary nitrates ultimately to nitric oxide and your arteries will benefit. Probably one of the reason plant-eaters and maybe vegetarians and vegans may have less cardiovascular diseases because they’re making more nitric oxide. Also I get to have better erections, but I don’t have any direct proof of that, that I’d like to show during this Skype. Anyway but it turns out with a green smoothie that you actually can, there’s a system where you will still absorb the dietary nitrates. They actually concentrate in your parotid gland. They circulate, even if you just down them quickly without chewing. They will circulate in your blood, they’ll concentrate back in your parotid gland, of all things. They’re secreted in your saliva, and there’s a second chance for that green smoothie to interact with your tongue and the bacteria to create ultimately nitric oxide. So it’s this amazing two-pass system the body has to optimize green vegetables, beets, that are high in dietary nitrates to make nitric oxide. So pretty darn sure you’re still doing okay with a really green smoothie, maybe 10, 20% percent is fruit, blueberry, blackberries, pomegranate seeds and such, because one way or another, now I don’t make my smoothies real smooth, I make them kind of chunky so I end up chewing them a little bit on the way down and then presumably they cycle back.
– Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. You mentioned chewing. That’s something that my friend Rama Youkilis has been kind of on for a long time, is the American public, Western public in general, just has stopped chewing. We eat so damn fast, we’re already out of the restaurant before we got our food. So how important is it? I mean, obviously for this nitric oxide piece, but how important is it for everything else that we’re doing?
– Yeah, there’s some good data that it’s part of the mindful approach to the plate, a mindful approach that can take you to Okinawa and the term hara hachi bu, or stop eating when you’re 80% full so you don’t have calorie excess, gluttony, weight gain, insulin resistance. That’s mindful. And chewing is a form of mindful activity. There’s an author, I think the name is R. Jacobs who wrote a book called The Healthiest Man Ever, and he talked about chewdism, really making this a 32-per-meal practice. And it’s very hard to do that consistently, but it clearly does start the digestive process. There is a whole microbiome in your mouth. And particularly now, we know a microbiome on your tongue that literally you can destroy with Listerine and some other antibacterial mouthwash. The benefits of a green smoothie spinach, kale and Swiss chard and such have been shown to be negated if you rinse with an antibacterial mouthwash like Listerine. So find something that doesn’t kill all those healthy facultative anaerobes on your tongue. And chewing is helpful. It’ll start the digestive process. As we get older, we don’t make as many digestive enzymes. So we can at least break down part of the cell wall and release some of the nutrition in your mouth. I agree with you though. I mean, we’re on the run and we’re drinking a lot of liquid sources of calories, and it has become less of a tradition and a practice.
– What do you recommend for oral hygiene? So many people are just, the dentists are handing out Listerine like it’s going out of business or staying in business for that matter. And so you’re getting very different information from the dental profession. And so if Listerine is that bad for oral microbiota, what do we use?
– Yeah, I think there is some fascinating data about healthy and unhealthy oral bacteria or microbiome. And in fact, you can take a person that’s having a carotid artery operation, they have a 90% blocked carotid artery in the neck, you take the plaque out during that operation, you can find oral bacteria, the DNA is exactly the same as what’s in that person’s mouth. And that’s, at least, some support to a theory that the health of our mouth is related to at least atherosclerosis, if not systemic inflammation and such. So absolutely fascinating. There is now, there are some advanced dentists that will do oral DNA so you’ll know if you have a variety of more lethal or pathogenic bacteria that could be causing inflation. When I have people that have high C-reactive proteins that I absolutely can’t find a cause for, I’ll send them to somebody experienced in getting a mouth swab andin getting their oral DNA profile back, their own bacterial profile. But it’s flossing. Oil pulling is fine, it’s brushing, but it’s probably more what you’re brushing with. And you do want to find one of the better mouth agents that doesn’t have SES and SLS and parabens and phthalates. We know that, was it Crest or Colgate, has triclosan in it, an endocrine-disrupting chemical. So you pay for what you get for, cheap is never cheap. I mean, I don’t have any product alliance. Designs for Health makes a great perio care kind of product, but there’s many others.
– That’s really good to know, because I bicker with my wife about this traditionally trained dentist and so the stuff that they’re fed in school is basically fluoride is fine, all the stuff is, if the ADA approved it, it’s fine. And so there’s gonna be some real shake-up in that industry in the next few years as well.
– Yeah, I see that happening already. I actually attend meetings now on preventive cardiology care that’s half full of dentists in the room. And frankly, these guys are learning more than most of my colleagues in cardiology. So there’s a place out in Seattle called the Clois Center, there’s a training course out of Spokane called Baledonin, and they really emphasize for dentists and physicians the critical role of oral health and oral hygiene on cardiovascular health. Very interesting connection.
– Yeah, yeah, these are interesting times to say the least. So listen, I love the work that you’re doing. You and I have hung out in person a few times now and you’re buried in snow in Detroit right now, about to head off on a PBS tour soon enough. The book is called Your Heart Solution, What You Can Do to Prevent or Reverse Heart Disease Right Now. It’s out on paperback finally, and it’s available this month? When’s it available?
– Yeah, it’s perfect to pre-order for Christmas. It’ll show up two days after Christmas.
– Got it, excellent. And yeah, listen, I love the fact that you’ve been holding it down and you are practicing what you preach. I enjoy the fact that you’ve got a little sweat on you now that came from beginning on your treadmill. So good luck with that. I’m a big fan of the work that you’ve been doing and the work that you’re about to do. I know you’re about to write another book. Any teasers about what it’s about?
– It’s called The Plant-Based Solution. Only maybe 10% of your Whole Heart Solution talks about fruits, vegetables, nutrition and plant-based. It’s a grounding and inference on energy therapy, a lot of things that you’re a world expert on. This book will be solely on system-by-system. Diabetes, cancer, dementia, obesity, blood pressure and how plant-based diets, whether they’re plant strong or plant only, are the solution in this increasingly dirty world, a difficult world, where we’re just being pounded by chemicals and toxins. It’s a place to run away to and do better than average.
– Right on, right on. Well listen, I wish you the best of luck. Thank you so much for being here and hold it down. Yeah.
– Namaste AF as we say in Detroit.
– Namaste. And for those of you out there, let me know what you think. Any questions, put them in there. We’ll tag Dr. Khan’s team, and we’ll go from there. Don’t forget the Urban Monk Academy, check out theurbanmonk.com if you’re new to my world, and we’ll put links in for the book and everything that you learned here. I’ll see you next time.